KVR Audio

coffeefox · Post by **coffeefox** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:14 pm

I'm pulling my hair out with my PreSonus FireStudio Mobile - which seems to get excellent reviews everywhere, but the latency is awful (for me).

I have a supposedly great computer (12Gb RAM, i7 930 CPU, Win7 x64) but can't seem to get 1 minute of recording done without crackling and breaking down.

Is there any soundcard out there that can run multiple Superior Drummer VST Instruments (Live E-Drumming) and Guitar Rigs (Live Shredding) flawlessly with a latency lower than 7mS?
And also has a panel for (direct) guitar inputs?

coffeefox · Post by **coffeefox** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:11 pm

Of course RME is very nice. However, the Mrs isn't.

"EMU 1616M PCI Express" looks reasonable.

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:51 pm

+1 for RME

monkeymanx · Post by **monkeymanx** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:58 pm

I play v-drums so I run at 64 samples using my M-Audio Profire 610. If you look around it is the most cost effective low latency firewire sound card out there. Make sure you have a TI firewire card though. Most sound cards give similar results though because of generic drivers and that DICE chipset. Unless of course the company tweaks their drivers like M-Audio did. I can run quite a lot at 64 samples without an issue. Of course this is on windows running cubase. On my MAC side, it is another story. It can run low latency but can't run nearly as much stuff without jacking the buffer up.

Anyway, Profire 610 and Win 7 should get you where you need to be. BTW I sold off my FS mobile due to wanting extreme low latency.

cyphersuit · Post by **cyphersuit** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:07 pm

I am also looking for a new audio interface. Need low latency and up to date drivers to run under win7. I could spend 500 bucks. Used firewire before but i think with win7 i should switch to a usb interface.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:17 pm

Before you get another sound card. Have you run DPC checker to see if your PC is configured for low latency? There are a few things you have to do such as make sure youre not running something in the background and make sure windows is set for high performance etc. Firewire can be tricky, you need to make sure you have T.I chipset and may need legacy drivers. Heres DPC checker :

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

This is about legacy drivers :

http://support.presonus.com/entries/238 ... itch-to-it

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:18 pm

RME in a PCI-e card, installed in a northbridge slot.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:42 pm

on the tweak your OS thing, unless windows has changed their architecture since I was in it, you want to run audio programs as background services rather than 'programs', and you want to kill processes that aren't useful in this regard; used to be one pretty much disabled most of the services but I imagine that isn't so de rigeur today. You don't want to save energy, that's a governor you don't want, disable energy saving...

the PCI-e in a northbridge slot is the fastest path to the CPU. that's a fact.

RME Multiface 2 isn't a real expensive interface... FW breakout box but it's a PCI-e card.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:36 pm

I have a different approach to suggest.

Why run all these synths and effects in realtime?

Freeze the tracks that are not recorded at present.

If you find freezing tracks/synths cumbersome you might work in another host that has better options for such operations.

In Cakewalk Sonar there is oneclick operation to freeze one or many tracks. It takes care of disabling the involved plugins as well so no cpu is wasted.
And oneclock operation to unfreeze them again if you need to mixdown or alter recording.

Otherwise I'll go with the crowd on RME.

I evaluated a couple of firewire interfaces - during a couple of month 18 month ago and gave up. To much problems and too much wasted cpu just keeping audio up.

RME Internal card was the solution. No wasted cpu and no hazzles whatsoever.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:49 pm

If I need fast drumming, I'll go for that first, 64 samples buffer and raise it as the thing grows. I can't stand to freeze tracks and have thrown some real $ at that, but I think expecting big arrangements at that latency is a little ambitious for most people. On my system, I have predictable latency at 128 which is responsive enough for my not-terrific keyboard recording, which I'm going to edit insanely anyway.

yes, the RME internal sorted me for life as far as an audio interface. why screw around.

coffeefox · Post by **coffeefox** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:13 am

Wow! Some wealthy folks here using RME!
RME doesn't seem to have ANYTHING on the budget side!

And running at 64 samples! That's amazing! I'm running at 512 and facing problems! But i've heard so MANY complaints about M-Audio drivers.

I've got my system tweaked as it is, background priority, full energy, etc.

It's a gigabyte motherboard and the USB and TI FireWire seem to share the same IRQ.

Also need to check into this legacy driver thing. And perhaps change the FireWire cable (currently one end is mini-FireWire to eliminate ground noise).

Also heard that the Roland Quad Capture can achieve latency of 2mS. If true, I thought it impossible for USB!

keyman_sam · Post by **keyman_sam** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:27 am

EMU 0404 PCI gave low latency and rock solid operation - 5 ms something. PCI cards are the way to go if you absolutely want the lowest latency no compromise.

That being said, I have an RME Babyface now and wouldn't trade it for the world.

Its the apple of the soundcard industry.

coffeefox · Post by **coffeefox** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:55 am

Could you guys please mention the kinda latency figures you achieve with your respective soundcards? I really wish the manufacturers would prioritize latency when developing drivers.

And am i right to say that modern motherboards no longer use PCI slots? It's something smaller called PCI-E?

fateamenabletochange · Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:17 am

coffeefox, with that computer you should be able to get very low latency with the Presonus you have, [I don't think there is any problem with their drivers], or EMU 1212m or RME Babyface which is the real deal, and not that expensive over the 10 years you might use it.

I have same spec computer and have had low latency with Firepod [which is used by my older computer], EMU 1212m [which doesn't have a DI ], and now RME. Babyface has a DI.

Something not right with your setup ?? Multiple possibilities.

DPClatency and LatMon will help tease things out a suggested.

If you have a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard, I could help with some links for Bios and Registry changes which may help, depending on what the problem is.

There is alot of stuff about all this with google searches, your MB and the problem etc.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:42 am

coffeefox wrote:Wow! Some wealthy folks here using RME!
RME doesn't seem to have ANYTHING on the budget side!

I always assume that they are professionals in a production environment, as opposed to "wealthy." The expenses of the business that pays my day-job salary make stuff like recording studio equipment, software, musical instruments, royalties, and talent acquisition look comparatively cheap. Apples to oranges perhaps, but what is the annual budget for your typical independent recording studio? I expect a single PC and a high-end soundcard vanishes to obscurity just versus the overhead of the room it's in, right?

This is the problem that semi-pros and hobbyists have when rubbing elbows with professionals, not just in our sector, but all over.

I'd point out that if the main issue is latency, I was getting a reliable 8ms from a SBLive, and I don't remember anyone saying anything was wrong with a Delta card

Is the real problem that PCs don't have PCI slots anymore and that PCI-e cards are expensive and USB or FW tends to add latency?

Lowest Latency Soundcards?