Mac Mini for Music - Advice

[tehlord]

Oh ok, then go for the mini if a strong point is saving money too. You can always sell it if you want more, these machines hold up resale value quite well for now.

Here's the basic one i been looking at George.

£849.00

2.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
4GB memory
Dual 500GB 7200-rpm hard drives1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
OS X Lion Server
OS X Lion

Then i go to configure panel and here is the result:

£1,395

Same as above but..

add: 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB = +£160
add: 256GB Solid State Drive = +£320
add: pple MacBook Air SuperDrive = +£66


So as i have external monitors etc i can get all of this above but i'll look someplace else to get the spec i want maybe a little cheaper. The above specs will do me just fine i think. An iMac config to i7 takes me well above £2500

Rob

Dude why are you looking at spending a frankly scandelous £160 for 8GB Ram when you can buy identically specced branded Ram on Ebuyer for £30-35? Also, unless the already installed memory is 2x2GB all you need is an extra 4GB stick?

Also, make sure you can connect the 2 (?) monitors you already have to the single HDMI port on the Mini.

Lastly - WHY?

[discoDSP]

Oh ok, then go for the mini if a strong point is saving money too. You can always sell it if you want more, these machines hold up resale value quite well for now.

Here's the basic one i been looking at George.

£849.00

2.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
4GB memory
Dual 500GB 7200-rpm hard drives1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
OS X Lion Server
OS X Lion

Then i go to configure panel and here is the result:

£1,395

Same as above but..

add: 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB = +£160
add: 256GB Solid State Drive = +£320
add: pple MacBook Air SuperDrive = +£66


So as i have external monitors etc i can get all of this above but i'll look someplace else to get the spec i want maybe a little cheaper. The above specs will do me just fine i think. An iMac config to i7 takes me well above £2500

Rob

It's a fine config. As said, it's recommended to buy RAM and SuperDrive (any external USB drive will do for at least half the price or maybe you could go for external Blu-Ray) on a 3rd party, never Apple.

I'd add the 256 SSD drive on the build to order configuration because swapping hard disks on a Mac Mini is pretty hard to do.

[discoDSP]

Also, make sure you can connect the 2 (?) monitors you already have to the single HDMI port on the Mini.

New Minis have HDMI (max 1920x1080) and Thunderbolt (max 2560x1440). Adapters will be required for both (HDMI-DVI and Thunderbolt-DVI).

[chokehold]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

[qube123]

Buy minimum RAM and HDD from Apple and go to somewhere like Crucial and buy those bits yourself, easy to do and won't invalidate the warranty.

[rob_lee]

Oh ok, then go for the mini if a strong point is saving money too. You can always sell it if you want more, these machines hold up resale value quite well for now.

Here's the basic one i been looking at George.

£849.00

2.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
4GB memory
Dual 500GB 7200-rpm hard drives1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
OS X Lion Server
OS X Lion

Then i go to configure panel and here is the result:

£1,395

Same as above but..

add: 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB = +£160
add: 256GB Solid State Drive = +£320
add: pple MacBook Air SuperDrive = +£66


So as i have external monitors etc i can get all of this above but i'll look someplace else to get the spec i want maybe a little cheaper. The above specs will do me just fine i think. An iMac config to i7 takes me well above £2500

Rob

Dude why are you looking at spending a frankly scandelous £160 for 8GB Ram when you can buy identically specced branded Ram on Ebuyer for £30-35? Also, unless the already installed memory is 2x2GB all you need is an extra 4GB stick?

Also, make sure you can connect the 2 (?) monitors you already have to the single HDMI port on the Mini.

Lastly - WHY?

As i said Geoff i have no idea what im doing i was just pointing out the prices at the online store (i will not be paying them prices though) HDMI Port on the Mini?
Cool i will plug in teh 50 inch Plasma here on the wall lol

Im still looking but im swaying towards a mac here.. anyways i have the money so im gonna have a treat

Rob

[rob_lee]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

Thanks for taking the time to type all that mate it's a good read. I am looking into it further today and look for some place other than the apple store and get me a good deal with the spec i want..

Cheers

Rob

[qube123]

The Mini is no less expandable than the iMac though right?

I thought the bigger iMacs could go to 16GB instead of the Mini's 8GB and have two internal hard drives instead of the Mini's one.

They do that by sacrificing the DVD drive and adding in a 2.5" drive (usually an SSD)

You can add in 16GB to all of them but with only 2 slots the 8GB DIMMS are very expensive. With only up to 4 cores 16GB is a bit OTT TBH. My rule of thumb for a 64-Bit OS you want 2GB of RAM x number of cores to get the most out of it.

I recently put 8GB of RAM in a 2009 Mini which is only supposed to support 4, no issues, detected all of it and worked like a charm.

[rob_lee]

The Mini is no less expandable than the iMac though right?

I thought the bigger iMacs could go to 16GB instead of the Mini's 8GB and have two internal hard drives instead of the Mini's one.

They do that by sacrificing the DVD drive and adding in a 2.5" drive (usually an SSD)

You can add in 16GB to all of them but with only 2 slots the 8GB DIMMS are very expensive. With only up to 4 cores 16GB is a bit OTT TBH. My rule of thumb for a 64-Bit OS you want 2GB of RAM x number of cores to get the most out of it.

I recently put 8GB of RAM in a 2009 Mini which is only supposed to support 4, no issues, detected all of it and worked like a charm.

Thanks for that, also what external usb/firewire soundcard do you use with your mini?
This setup seems to be what im after, i just need to find a good dealer in the UK that's cheaper than the Apple store itself and let them customise it for me.

Cheers

Rob

[UltraJv]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

Theres something up with your Windows vs OSX claims there. IMHO, people who mess with Windows often make thing worse in ways they dont understand. Heres a proper benchmark :

"while comparing OSX 10.5.8 and OSX 10.6.2 in isolation is all rosy, once we have a closer look at the comparative against Windows 7 , again despite the measurable improvements on OSX , the performance variable is still huge , where the single socket system running Windows 7 is still outperforming the Dual Processor system running OSX."


http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm

[rob_lee]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

Theres something up with your Windows vs OSX claims there. IMHO, people who mess with Windows often make thing worse in ways they dont understand. Heres a proper benchmark :

"while comparing OSX 10.5.8 and OSX 10.6.2 in isolation is all rosy, once we have a closer look at the comparative against Windows 7 , again despite the measurable improvements on OSX , the performance variable is still huge , where the single socket system running Windows 7 is still outperforming the Dual Processor system running OSX."


http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm

Hmm interesting read, thanks.

Shit! What to do

My current DAW is a Q6600 and it's old, runs plugins just fine but the damn thing is noisy as hell and the Coolermaster Dominator case dominates alright it's an eyesore taking up much space.

So

As i won't be having much hardware, just a Virus and Blofeld + Pulse2 when i get my beta version then really all i'll be using is soft synths. I dont' need a big setup i just though the Mac Mini would suit me fine aswell as save lots of space.

Cheers

Rob

[rob_lee]

What about this one? Accepts best offer too

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Apple-Mac ... 137wt_1258

Rob

[qube123]

Thanks for that, also what external usb/firewire soundcard do you use with your mini?
This setup seems to be what im after, i just need to find a good dealer in the UK that's cheaper than the Apple store itself and let them customise it for me.

Cheers

Rob

If you want a 'new' one with warranty I'd use the Refurb store and add in the RAM and HDD yourself, it's dead easy (was a bit of a faff on the 2009 and earlier models but these days it's simple, it's expected that you'll do it and Apple provide instructions, does not invalidate the warranty.

Otherwise look at Ebay and find a reseller.

As for sound, I use a trusty Alesis Multimix 8 with the USB 2 interface, works perfectly without issue and gives me the 24/96 ADC/DAC that I want. I would have used a Firewire one but for some reason they don't support the same resolution.

[rob_lee]

Thanks for that, also what external usb/firewire soundcard do you use with your mini?
This setup seems to be what im after, i just need to find a good dealer in the UK that's cheaper than the Apple store itself and let them customise it for me.

Cheers

Rob

If you want a 'new' one with warranty I'd use the Refurb store and add in the RAM and HDD yourself, it's dead easy (was a bit of a faff on the 2009 and earlier models but these days it's simple, it's expected that you'll do it and Apple provide instructions, does not invalidate the warranty.

Otherwise look at Ebay and find a reseller.

As for sound, I use a trusty Alesis Multimix 8 with the USB 2 interface, works perfectly without issue and gives me the 24/96 ADC/DAC that I want. I would have used a Firewire one but for some reason they don't support the same resolution.

Thanks for that, sounds great. Also did you see my Ebay link above? That's pretty cheap IMO i could make an offer on that one and spend the rest on accessorie's or a couple of softsynths.. Either way i'll make that money back in a month through soundset sales so im gonna have one either way and use this old desktop in the other room just for the net

Rob

[qube123]

Yes, that Ebay one looks nice, the quad 2.0GHz i7 is the same spec as my Macbook Pro. I run Logic and 10.6.8 on mine and it's lovely, very fast.

I'd say go for it.