Mac Mini for Music - Advice

[rob_lee]

Yes, that Ebay one looks nice, the quad 2.0GHz i7 is the same spec as my Macbook Pro. I run Logic and 10.6.8 on mine and it's lovely, very fast.

I'd say go for it.

Ok that's good enough for me i will make an offer after tea

Rob

[discoDSP]

I think you are going to need expandability and the mini probably won't deliver on the long term.

Why not a Mac Pro? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCRUMPYMACS-M ... 025wt_1413

[rob_lee]

I think you are going to need expandability and the mini probably won't deliver on the long term.

Why not a Mac Pro? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCRUMPYMACS-M ... 025wt_1413

Hmm

Im not too keen on buying second hand computers George..
Also im not running much so for external synths etc i also gonna order this:

http://www.musicmatter.co.uk/motu-ultralite-mk3

I know the guy and i can get it even cheaper than the listed price.. this wil be ok for the TI Snow/Blofeld and the Waldorf Pulse 2 when it arrives i think.
Im sure the i7 8gb Mac Mini with its x2 750gb internal drives plus the extra external one should be a good setup mate

Rob

[discoDSP]

I see, your Mac Mini + MOTU is a excellent setup. Don't forget any HDMI-DVI or Thunderbolt-DVI dongles

[qube123]

I think you are going to need expandability and the mini probably won't deliver on the long term.

Why not a Mac Pro? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCRUMPYMACS-M ... 025wt_1413

The Mini in question will run rings around that 2006 Pro.

My 2011 Macbook Pro has a quad i7 2Ghz, 8GB RAM and a 750GB Hybrid SATA drive, it's faster by a long shot than my 2008 Mac Pro which is an 8 core 2.8Ghz Xeon, 10GB RAM and 4*1GB SATA RAID0 (yes I know RAID0 means no redundancy but I have an external backup I did it to maximise IO and it does that very well, have tested it with different configurations and this is the fastest).

Where the Pro benefits is with storage but with the Thunderbolt connection on the laptop I can add in fast external drives. Quite tempted to sell the Pro and get a top-spec iMac as I think for not a huge investment I can get a much nicer machine.

I think the bottleneck on the Pro is with the 800MHz bus compared to the 1333MHz bus on the newer Macbook.

[rob_lee]

I think you are going to need expandability and the mini probably won't deliver on the long term.

Why not a Mac Pro? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCRUMPYMACS-M ... 025wt_1413

The Mini in question will run rings around that 2006 Pro.

My 2011 Macbook Pro has a quad i7 2Ghz, 8GB RAM and a 750GB Hybrid SATA drive, it's faster by a long shot than my 2008 Mac Pro which is an 8 core 2.8Ghz Xeon, 10GB RAM and 4*1GB SATA RAID0 (yes I know RAID0 means no redundancy but I have an external backup I did it to maximise IO and it does that very well, have tested it with different configurations and this is the fastest).

Where the Pro benefits is with storage but with the Thunderbolt connection on the laptop I can add in fast external drives. Quite tempted to sell the Pro and get a top-spec iMac as I think for not a huge investment I can get a much nicer machine.

I think the bottleneck on the Pro is with the 800MHz bus compared to the 1333MHz bus on the newer Macbook.

Ok mate,

I have the cash to make an offer right now infact i have an extra £500 if he accepts but can you look at these before i go ahead? I just found this dealer:
http://www.jigsaw24.com/products/compu ... ini-server



Cheers

Rob

[qube123]

The Ebay link is better value.

Wouldn't bother with 16GB, don't think there'd be much benefit. Maybe lose one of the internal drives and swap it for an SSD with the £500 burning a hole in your pocket. Otherwise buy an iMac so that you get a Thunderbolt socket, faster CPU and sell your existing screen to make up the difference.

[aMUSEd]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

Isn't it just?! Unbelievably quiet - much more than my i7 laptop is. I bought one a couple of months back and it manages all my synths fine - even DIVA.

[qube123]

If you can afford this is MUCH better: http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FD063B/A

[chokehold]

My 2011 Macbook Pro has a quad i7 2Ghz

Isn't that more like "hyper-threaded dual core i7"?

[rob_lee]

If you can afford this is MUCH better: http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FD063B/A

Shit lol i was all ready to go for that mini

Hahaha

Hmmm i'll check it out

Rob

[tenshin111]

I switched from PC to Mac Mini in September last year. I have the 2011 model with i5 2x 2.5 GHz.

Performance-wise it beat the crap out of my PC (i7 4x 2.8 GHz, Win7 x64, 4GB Ram, SATA2 SSD) already before I started modding it, that is with the factory issued 5.400 SATA2 HDD and 4GB RAM.

Mind you, I've been a PC/DOS/Win guy now for 20+ years, so I do know my way around Windows systems, and mine was trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance something rotten.

But a project that got my Win7 with the i7 quad up to nearly 70% total CPU munch in Reaper (which utilizes all processors and cores) only used about 30% total CPU of the i5 in Reaper on OSX, with all the AU/AUi versions of the plugins I had loaded in the project as VST/VSTi in Windows. (Like Waves, SSL, Kontakt, etc.)

After a few weeks I got bored, said "screw the warranty" and fitted it with 8GB slightly faster budget RAM (Hynix brand; RAM upgrades actually don't void the warranty, but the following step does) and swapped the mechanical HDD for two Crucial M4 SATA3 SSDs (you only need a Torx T6 & T8 bit plus a steady hand), and now the thing's a rocket.
(The Mac Mini comes with a SATA2 mechanical HDD, but the connectors on the logic board and the cable(s) support SATA3!)

Okay, I still have my Win7/i7 machine, but that only gets powered on every two or three weeks or so (in fact: can't remember when the last time was ATM) and actually only because it has a DVD drive (DVD workaround for Mac Mini: Rip DVDs to ISO on PC, copy to Mac via network) or for gaming, because an i7 quad machine with a recent GeForce graphics adapter just has so much more power than a hyper-threaded i5 dual core with a lousy mobile ATI gfx adapter in the Mac Mini.

But then, that lousy ATI gfx adapter does let me use two 26" screens in 1920x1200 simultaneously, one via HDMI and one over a Thunderbolt-to-HDMI adapter.
It's fast as can be for video and 2D stuff, not running out of puff there, so no complaints from my corner concerning fitness for audio/media work.

A major drawback MIGHT be the missing possibility to build in PCI/PCIe cards etc., but I guess that's only important if you're switching from a system with UAD cards.

Regarding keyboard, mouse and monitors:
My screens are two ASUS TFTs, absolutely nothing to do with Apple. You could even plug your big screen TV (with HDMI) in.
I don't know about the keyboard, as I bought a nice aluminium (wired) Apple keyboard about two years ago and used it with my Windows PC, and when I got the Mac I just plugged that in and it worked, so I can't tell you if and how another "standard PC" keyboard would work.
My mouse is a Logitech Anywhere MX, I just stuck the USB Bluetooth receiver into the keyboard's USB hub and forgot about it. Works just fine, no need for a lousy Magic Mouse or so.

TBH, I love the Mac Mini. It's sort of a "notebook on steroids", plus it CAN be transformed into a mean machine with standard PC components (if selected wisely) and it has amazing connectivity.
I've always snickered and sneered at Macs, because I always was a Windows and self-built PC guy and never had the cash to afford a Mac, so I didn't know what potential they bear.
Now I know, and for all I care ATM, I have no intention of switching back to Windows machines for serious work anytime soon. Gaming - sure, but not music production, graphic design, surfing, Web TV, ...
And boy... is it QUIET!!!

Theres something up with your Windows vs OSX claims there. IMHO, people who mess with Windows often make thing worse in ways they dont understand.

My thoughts exactly.

[qube123]

My 2011 Macbook Pro has a quad i7 2Ghz

Isn't that more like "hyper-threaded dual core i7"?

Nope, it's a quad core, with HT it shows up as 8 cores

[discoDSP]

If you can afford this is MUCH better: http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FD063B/A

Shit lol i was all ready to go for that mini

Hahaha

Hmmm i'll check it out

Rob

Edit: It appeared out of stock due maintenance. Can be ordered now

[chokehold]

Nope, it's a quad core, with HT it shows up as 8 cores

Wow, OK, I wasn't aware they made MacBook Pros with "real" quad core intels.

Theres something up with your Windows vs OSX claims there. IMHO, people who mess with Windows often make thing worse in ways they dont understand.

I don't like what you're suggesting.

I'm not a 14 year old kiddie who thinks Stardock tools would make Windows any faster or better or more reliable. I have been screwing around with every Windows version since 3.1, exploring and gutting and streamlining them to best fit my performance needs.
By writing "trimmed for Audio/ASIO performance", I meant that all the components I used to build it were carefully selected after doing a lot of reading and digging up background info.

After building what I found to be the best intel/Windows machine for my needs at the time, I spent hours and days switching-off-this and uninstalling-that and comparing the performance gain/loss by using one "reference project". Turning hyper-threading on and off, disabling unused ports and wireless adapters, switching to AHCI, switching between internal IEEE1394 and a PCIE TI board, switching on and off visual designs, optimizing for background services or programs, disabling and enabling the strangest system processes, and loads of other stuff like that.
Constantly observing and comparing the effect these changes had on my system's performance.

I agree, there are ways to f*ck up Windows' performance completely, but I am aware of these and I know from experience that my system was optimized to reach the limits of whats possible with it without endangering its function by (for example) overclocking it or using other possibly desctructive or at least counter-productive "tweaks".

I am also not a "system litterer" who downloads and installs uncountable gigabytes of useless sh*t from the web just because it's there, I don't even like installing demo versions but would rather buy and install the full version right away, all in order to keep my Windows installation as clean and performant as possible.

So thank you for the assumption, not, but I have to decline. I know my way around Windows, and I have done so for roughly 20 years.

When I unboxed my Mac Mini, installed all the programs and plugins and loaded the "reference project", which I know like the back of my hand because I had used it to optimize my last two i7/Win machines, I got loads more power out of the Mac as it was, without tweaking or changing any settings. That was also before swapping any hardware.
Turned out that the Mac Mini, which I had initially bought as a "test Mac" to see whether I could wrap my head around the way OSX works or whether it will remain an overhyped shiny box for me, actually overshot all of my expectations and has now become my audio production workhorse.

I agree, "you can get a lot more power out of a well-built PC in the price range of a Mac Mini", but that's just overall "power" and not audio related performance.

After being a PC/Microsoft guy for over 20 years, I finally had to admit that to myself last year.
I've been using the Mac Mini on an everyday basis for 8 months now, my conclusion hasn't changed as of yet and I don't expect it to.