pc audio interface

[Bortxx]

Currently using a very powerful PC with internal Realtek sound card, and using SONAR not for recording but for playing live VSTIs with some occasional background sound clips. The problem I am having is with latency and pops in the sound rendering. I have already experimented with ASIO and WASAPI drivers solving the latency problem but still have the pops and have been unsuccessful in sharing the sound engine between SONAR and other applications with these more direct drivers. Something that I need.

I want to fine tune this PC for live play, not recording. This means as close to 0 latency as possible, clean real time sound reproduction, and share the sound engine between SONAR and other sound generating applications.

I have been told to get a PC audio interface to solve these issues. Most of these are aimed at people using their DAW for recording. I don't need anything that comes with those interfaces except 1 stereo analog out, period. I have narrowed it down to two solutions which I want to ask the forum about.

1. Get a "ASUS Xonar Essence ST". Wondering if this would meet the needs outlined above.

2. Get a "FiiO TAISHAN-D03K Digital to Analog Audio Converter" and use the optical out out of the motherboard's stock Realtek sound module into this one. I might need some clarification here but if the Realtek's DAC is the issue, wouldn't replacing it with an external one fix the issues. I guess its not clear to me what else a sound card needs to do in this situation.

Open to other suggestions too.

[noizetronic]

The card given under point 1 doesn't mention an ASIO driver or its support. While it might sound a whole lot better than your Realtek onboard chip, timing/latency may still not be one of its strengths.

The DAC of point 2 probably only would provide a better quality output signal that's still riddled with pops and clicks plus high latency; your pc still would have to use mediocre Realtek drivers for it.

Better get a Soundcard with proper ASIO support and stable driver, either in the box as pci-e device or as external USB unit. At the price of the Asus card you'd be already in the territory of useful choices. You'd need nothing more than 1x stereo in and out, not even midi. E.g. ESI juli@ would be a card i know and would recommend, although it already has more connectivity than what you're looking for.

[fmr]

Using dedicated hardware is not just a question of the hardware "per se", but also the written drivers and software support (I mean dedicated software for the card, not third party apps fopr recording and that).

The Realtek software support and drivers are like crap, so, even if the hardware was good (which it isn't - bearable at the most) the end would always be bad.

So, look for a deciated audio hardware interface by a company with a solid reputation in the sofware support domain - that's the only safe way for having something worthing the investment.
For example, I am still using an RME Hammerfall PCI DSP with Multiface - first generation. It is probably more than I need, but look at the date of launching (2001). It is still working, works fine under Windows 7 x64, and will work under Windows 8, if/when I upgrade.

If I want, I can exchange the PCI card by a PCIe, and still use the same system. That's what I call an investment. This is possible because RME never neglected support of their old hardware, and are still updating their drivers.

Buy a "cheapo" card based on the argument that you don't need more "now", and you may be hanging on in the next OS or hardware revision.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Using a "very powerful PC" with a Realtek sound card is like drinking champagne out of a shoe.

For less than $250 you can pick up a decent external USB sound card (cheaper if 2nd hand) with proper ASIO low latency drivers. All pops and clicks will disappear instantly.

The most common recommendation these days is this one:

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... e-audio-6/

Might be overkill for your needs, since it has multiple inputs. There are cheaper cards with 2 in / 2 out.

The key is getting an audio device that supports ASIO drivers.

Go with RME if you want high quality audio + drivers. Cost is significantly higher, though.

Peace,
Andy.

[fmr]

The key is getting an audio device that supports ASIO drivers.

THIS... And support means... keeping updating them, and solving problems that appear in OS revisions, incompatibilities with DAWs new versions, etc.

[planetearth]

Using a "very powerful PC" with a Realtek sound card is like drinking champagne out of a shoe.

For less than $250 you can pick up a decent external USB sound card (cheaper if 2nd hand) with proper ASIO low latency drivers. All pops and clicks will disappear instantly.
The most common recommendation these days is this one:
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... e-audio-6/
Might be overkill for your needs, since it has multiple inputs. There are cheaper cards with 2 in / 2 out.
The key is getting an audio device that supports ASIO drivers.
Go with RME if you want high quality audio + drivers. Cost is significantly higher, though.

Peace,
Andy.

ZenPunk knows his stuff when it comes to audio (though his methods of drinking champagne are debatable).

I doubt anyone here has heard of the two audio interfaces the OP mentioned, but you definitely want to avoid Realtek or any other on-board sound "card". Using optical inputs isn't any better, and creates other problems. RME and Native Instruments make well-respected USB-based external audio interfaces, and there are some decent Focusrite products below $250. The only one I'd stay away from is E-MU. They are owned by Creative Labs (maker of SoundBlaster audio cards), and their ongoing support of any of their cards is always in doubt.

Steve

[dalor]

If I want, I can exchange the PCI card by a PCIe, and still use the same system. That's what I call an investment. This is possible because RME never neglected support of their old hardware, and are still updating their drivers.

Buy a "cheapo" card based on the argument that you don't need more "now", and you may be hanging on in the next OS or hardware revision.

I wish I would have read what you wrote years ago, you nailed it. I bought the EMU 1616m years ago, shortly after, emu was sold to Creative and the 64-bit drivers are still in beta since then. They will never be updated, Win8 is officially not supported. If my 1616m ever dies, RME it is!

[Bortxx]

For less than $250 you can pick up a decent external USB sound card (cheaper if 2nd hand) with proper ASIO low latency drivers. All pops and clicks will disappear instantly.

The most common recommendation these days is this one:

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... e-audio-6/

Might be overkill for your needs, since it has multiple inputs. There are cheaper cards with 2 in / 2 out.

The key is getting an audio device that supports ASIO drivers.

Go with RME if you want high quality audio + drivers. Cost is significantly higher, though.

Peace,
Andy.

I missed this interface in my research. Some issues:

1. I found some consistent negatives across the web regarding this interface:
- Complaints about popping and crackling until USB is disconnected and reconnected
- Audio stuttering
- Driver issues
- Only USB powered instead of a separate power supply to insure enough power
Are these problems that have been worked out or still present?

2. Although many are happy with the Komplete audio 6 as it relates to latency, wouldn't a PCI based interface have lower latency? USB 2.0 seems very old and slow to me.

3. You mentioned there are others cheaper offerings out there with 2in /2 out. I haven't seen any. What might those be? I don't mind the $200 - $300 price point if I can get low latency and no pops or noise degradation. That's what I have now.

[Bortxx]

The key is getting an audio device that supports ASIO drivers.

THIS... And support means... keeping updating them, and solving problems that appear in OS revisions, incompatibilities with DAWs new versions, etc.

My experience with ASIO is that because of its direct nature when used with SONAR it mutes out all other applications that produce sound. Basically monopolizes the sound channel. Is this just a result of using ASIO4All or is this true for all ASIO implementations even on USB Audio Interfaces made for DAWs. If so is there an interface that has drivers without this restriction? Its really a pain in the ass.

[whyterabbyt]

2. Although many are happy with the Komplete audio 6 as it relates to latency, wouldn't a PCI based interface have lower latency? USB 2.0 seems very old and slow to me.

There are two kinds of latency; one is fixed, and is the result of the hardware's buffers, one is configurable, and is a result of the driver's buffers. USB 2 is sufficiently fast to not be a significant causal factor in the former; in other words a given PCI card could be worse than a given USB interface.
However, having a card with decent drivers will make a significant difference over the cards you mentioned yourself.
For the record, USB2 has a maximum bandwidth of 35 MB per second. Stereo audio at 24-bit 96Khz has a bandwidth requirement of about 0.6 MB per second (approx 100K*3*2). Just because a specification is 'old' doesnt mean it isnt more than adequate.

[Bortxx]

However, having a card with decent drivers will make a significant difference over the cards you mentioned yourself.
For the record, USB2 has a maximum bandwidth of 35 MB per second. Stereo audio at 24-bit 96Khz has a bandwidth requirement of about 0.6 MB per second (approx 100K*3*2). Just because a specification is 'old' doesnt mean it isnt more than adequate.

What about what I read about USB interfaces sometimes dropping off and having to be re-plugged in to fix. I see many complaints about this with Komplete Audio 6. I don't think this happens to PCI interfaces. Is this a good reason to not go USB if portability is not an issue?

[Bortxx]

I think I made up my mind in getting the Komplete Audio 6. The 3 points that are the main seller for me after looking at so many interfaces and user comments are:

1. The lowest latency you will get even compared to other units twice the price
2. Looks like their driver and firmware support is good
3. Supports muti-client ASIO driver natively (very important)
4. Beginning to think that most users complaining of pops and clicks are either running underpowered PCs or underpowered below spec USB ports since this interface is bus powered.

Thanks for helping me find this. This interface was totally off my radar.

[paterpeter]

You won't go wrong with the NI interface. I've used a NI Traktor Audio 2 for quite some time until I needed inputs* I've never had any issues with the NI interface. Works great.

*I then went for the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 which - unlike the Komplete Audio 6 - has a standalone mode which is crucial for my personal needs. Other than that, the Komplete Audio 6 would have been my choice, too.

[bmrzycki]

I have a KA6 and have used it on both Windows and OS X. The biggest drawback I've found is the power logic isn't electrically isolated sufficiently from the audio path. I'd get crackles out of my monitors when adjusting the large volume knob. I also found it didn't amplify the output signal as much as I would have liked. The latency on the device was decent, I just didn't like the other aspects mentioned.

I still use the interface as a fancy volume knob at work for my headphones. For that it works really well.

At home I replaced the interface with a Roland Quad Capture. I am very impressed with the new interface. The amplification is better, I never hear any kind of audio artifacts, and the digital pre-amps are really nice. The internal signal path is 40-bit, and the power circuit is physically isolated from the audio circuit. I used to have a Roland UA-101 interface and they are still making drivers for Windows 8 and OSX Mavericks for that thing, and it's been NINE years. I have confidence this interface will be supported for some time yet. It's in the same ballpark as the KA6 pricewise, I consider it to be a much better interface in the sub $300 range.