Can someone recommend a good windows laptop for daw use?
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5175 posts since 29 Apr, 2006
Can someone recommend a newer and good windows laptop for daw use?
-
- KVRAF
- 5805 posts since 8 May, 2008 from ssssskipping ......... I left you there
This summer, when the quad core Broadwell processors from Intel are released.
This is an example of a good 2015 dual core laptop:
http://www.techspot.com/review/963-dell-xps-13/
This is an example of a good 2015 dual core laptop:
http://www.techspot.com/review/963-dell-xps-13/
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig."
-
- KVRian
- 1353 posts since 31 Aug, 2007 from wales
-
- KVRian
- 1156 posts since 10 Apr, 2006
i went from a 15" lenovo i5 to one of the asus 17" i7 gamer jobs. i've put 3hd's in it (OS, tape reel, and sample library), and will be maxing out the ram at some point. thus far, though, i am liking it pretty well.
Feed the children! Preferably to starving wild animals.
--
Pooter | Software | Akai MPK-61 | Line 6 Helix | Dynaudio BM5A mk II
--
Pooter | Software | Akai MPK-61 | Line 6 Helix | Dynaudio BM5A mk II
-
- KVRist
- 338 posts since 19 Jul, 2013 from Chile
Quite a good question for 2015 (and probably better for 2016).
Lets look at the criteria for selection:
-CPU. Since 2011 Sandy Bridge efficiency, there have been only yearly minor 3 to 5% improvements CPU wise, hence buying a DAW laptop, now or back then has not made a difference to the power cores deliver.
-GPU. Not relevant for Audio, most integrated iCore Intel ones can handle the second monitor up to 1080 at common rates, unless you want the laptop to drive several fast screens that is.
Beware of 768 vertical resolution screens, the minimum is 900 pi, otherwise your sight might suffer.
-Ports. Here is the deal, apart from the required external soundcard, sooner or later a DAW will want to be part of a hands on control surface, more so that now, studio work begins at home and every musician needs to know production skills (plus the myriad of control surfaces being released at accessible prices). And nope, USB does not cut it, not even USB3 (that only RME seems to cater so far) and the problem is not its bandwidth but its lack of access to the DMA controller which allows devices direct access to main memory. So until 2015 you needed Firewire port, either laptop manufacturer installed or via the much more popular expresscard slot (which many business laptops still carry).
However, Thunderbolt is the best answer to the Ports question, since it not only provides Firewire compatibility (via a cheap adaptor) or by using it itself. Since this year there are several popular soundcard makers that have released TB connected Audio gear. The main points for TB come from its extreme low latency compared with any other port or transport protocol, and this translates into lower processor demands.
RAM, beware of soldered RAM, that the DELL XPS or the Mac lines now have. You probably will want to upgrade. I am using 16GB of 1600Mhz low voltage from a couple of years ago. I got a special kit from Crucial that not only delivers the stated specs but also at 1.28v (not at the common 1.35v low voltage). These do not come in stock models.
Serviceability. You need to be able to clean and to replace whatever you want, without having to shell out loads of money. Replacing a DAW's laptop is probably something you don't want to do often, so you better may service your laptop or repair casual damage. The expresscard and TB provide some of this versatility; there are cheap multiconnectors to attach to these. Anyway, I would avoid soldered CPU, RAM, Storage or most anything.
Storage medium, SSDs are a must, whether the laptop allows you to have either a M.2/Msata SSD card factory installed (alternatively your upgrade), oOr a Sata 3 2.5" SSD 500 GB (US$300 for a 850Pro) as a minimum. Take note several laptops allow you to have both or even three SSDs by way of a caddy DVDplayer replacement. Hardisks already being secondary and relegated to data storage (even being not that safe tech, where are the 200GB optical BlueRays?).
Other criteria, like battery life is interesting, specially for cleaning the laptop typical noisy power supplies laptops have, that may leak sometimes. Since 3 to 4 hours are usually provided by regular batteries, it is fairly accomplished.
Also, Portability. is bound to personal preference and usage. With the above specs given, it usually comes handy, otherwise you would be looking for a Desktop.
///I believe the above stated has been the state of things to consider for DAW in a laptop in recent years, however a lot is going to be overturned possibly next year (or the following one). Since there are several new technologies that will improve features needed for DAW. DDR4, chipset rewriting, DirectX11 (allowing for the integrated GPU to assist the cores), and the most important -because so far is the main bottleneck- surpassing Sata 3 limits (jumping from 500MBps up to 3.5GBps!!). NVMe is just getting released by Intel -look for Intel's 750 SSD- and it might hit laptops sooner than expected, hopefully in 2016, otherwise Samsung will steal the show.
Considering all the above, will I buy a laptop replacement for DAW? Not yet if I have a Sandy Bridge or later, that caters to my usage. I would instead buy now a Samsung 850 PRO SSD and upgrade RAM if you haven't and wait for 2016 options.
If a concrete today's DAW laptop answer is what you look for... search not far from DELL marvelous just released M3800 model from their Precision workstations line. It has TB and everything you need starting from around US$1500. Its only drawback is that it is not (yet) released without the additional dedicated GPU, which adds to its price while significantly lowers battery life and increases heat, when it could be running a DAW a tad smoother without it. Read the Notebookreview site review or its forum for its superb specs.
Good times indeed for DAW and laptops!
Lets look at the criteria for selection:
-CPU. Since 2011 Sandy Bridge efficiency, there have been only yearly minor 3 to 5% improvements CPU wise, hence buying a DAW laptop, now or back then has not made a difference to the power cores deliver.
-GPU. Not relevant for Audio, most integrated iCore Intel ones can handle the second monitor up to 1080 at common rates, unless you want the laptop to drive several fast screens that is.
Beware of 768 vertical resolution screens, the minimum is 900 pi, otherwise your sight might suffer.
-Ports. Here is the deal, apart from the required external soundcard, sooner or later a DAW will want to be part of a hands on control surface, more so that now, studio work begins at home and every musician needs to know production skills (plus the myriad of control surfaces being released at accessible prices). And nope, USB does not cut it, not even USB3 (that only RME seems to cater so far) and the problem is not its bandwidth but its lack of access to the DMA controller which allows devices direct access to main memory. So until 2015 you needed Firewire port, either laptop manufacturer installed or via the much more popular expresscard slot (which many business laptops still carry).
However, Thunderbolt is the best answer to the Ports question, since it not only provides Firewire compatibility (via a cheap adaptor) or by using it itself. Since this year there are several popular soundcard makers that have released TB connected Audio gear. The main points for TB come from its extreme low latency compared with any other port or transport protocol, and this translates into lower processor demands.
RAM, beware of soldered RAM, that the DELL XPS or the Mac lines now have. You probably will want to upgrade. I am using 16GB of 1600Mhz low voltage from a couple of years ago. I got a special kit from Crucial that not only delivers the stated specs but also at 1.28v (not at the common 1.35v low voltage). These do not come in stock models.
Serviceability. You need to be able to clean and to replace whatever you want, without having to shell out loads of money. Replacing a DAW's laptop is probably something you don't want to do often, so you better may service your laptop or repair casual damage. The expresscard and TB provide some of this versatility; there are cheap multiconnectors to attach to these. Anyway, I would avoid soldered CPU, RAM, Storage or most anything.
Storage medium, SSDs are a must, whether the laptop allows you to have either a M.2/Msata SSD card factory installed (alternatively your upgrade), oOr a Sata 3 2.5" SSD 500 GB (US$300 for a 850Pro) as a minimum. Take note several laptops allow you to have both or even three SSDs by way of a caddy DVDplayer replacement. Hardisks already being secondary and relegated to data storage (even being not that safe tech, where are the 200GB optical BlueRays?).
Other criteria, like battery life is interesting, specially for cleaning the laptop typical noisy power supplies laptops have, that may leak sometimes. Since 3 to 4 hours are usually provided by regular batteries, it is fairly accomplished.
Also, Portability. is bound to personal preference and usage. With the above specs given, it usually comes handy, otherwise you would be looking for a Desktop.
///I believe the above stated has been the state of things to consider for DAW in a laptop in recent years, however a lot is going to be overturned possibly next year (or the following one). Since there are several new technologies that will improve features needed for DAW. DDR4, chipset rewriting, DirectX11 (allowing for the integrated GPU to assist the cores), and the most important -because so far is the main bottleneck- surpassing Sata 3 limits (jumping from 500MBps up to 3.5GBps!!). NVMe is just getting released by Intel -look for Intel's 750 SSD- and it might hit laptops sooner than expected, hopefully in 2016, otherwise Samsung will steal the show.
Considering all the above, will I buy a laptop replacement for DAW? Not yet if I have a Sandy Bridge or later, that caters to my usage. I would instead buy now a Samsung 850 PRO SSD and upgrade RAM if you haven't and wait for 2016 options.
If a concrete today's DAW laptop answer is what you look for... search not far from DELL marvelous just released M3800 model from their Precision workstations line. It has TB and everything you need starting from around US$1500. Its only drawback is that it is not (yet) released without the additional dedicated GPU, which adds to its price while significantly lowers battery life and increases heat, when it could be running a DAW a tad smoother without it. Read the Notebookreview site review or its forum for its superb specs.
Good times indeed for DAW and laptops!
-
- KVRAF
- 5805 posts since 8 May, 2008 from ssssskipping ......... I left you there
That's why it's wise to wait for the Broadwell processors. They will not be faster but they will use a lot less power and and have much better integrated graphics without the need of a dedicated GPU. This way laptops with Broadwell will produce less heat, less noise and have longer battery life.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig."
-
- KVRist
- 338 posts since 19 Jul, 2013 from Chile
I suggest waiting for Intel 6th generation -Skylake-.
Broadwell (Intel's 5th) is the toc (at Intel's tic/toc strategy) which means this time comes a printing tech node shrinkage, not a technology renovation; from 22nm to 14 nm (of most of its parts, while important bits in the same chip remain at 32nm or even higher sizes).
Broadwell brings another below 5% CPU increase, while also steps its GPUs over 18% and lengthens battery life.
.
Therefore while your point is correct
Skylake. on the other side of the balance, will bring a new microarchitecture, which is more radical in its innovations (PCIe 4.0, DDR4, NVMe, +). Many of these will finally erase latency blocks and long held limitations, that Yes, affect serial data (hence audio) in novel, improved ways.
That said, a final consideration, Broadwell was delayed one year over its planned release date... Skylake had a H2 2015 release date, so its delay release is probably on order and hence our waiting time might be extended... Still, if you may reasonably wait for for 2016 or H1 2017 for those superb future-proof laptops, then hold it and check the nicest upgrades to your existing platform. That is what I am happily doing now.
///If you take in account a superb specced Laptop like Precision M3800 was achieved in hardware already, it is an excellent predictor that the longer battery life Broadwell 14nm node brings together with the novel Skylake platforms will gift us a totally radical mobile DAW... at 2016 summer as best scenario or early 2017, which would be just
!!!
Broadwell (Intel's 5th) is the toc (at Intel's tic/toc strategy) which means this time comes a printing tech node shrinkage, not a technology renovation; from 22nm to 14 nm (of most of its parts, while important bits in the same chip remain at 32nm or even higher sizes).
Broadwell brings another below 5% CPU increase, while also steps its GPUs over 18% and lengthens battery life.
.Therefore while your point is correct
Still is not much different from generational advances of recent years, except perhaps, this one will finally bring IRIS maturity; meaning Intel parts will be able to handle QHD (4k) screens, in very basic form but functional, it seems.standalone wrote:That's why it's wise to wait for the Broadwell processors. They will not be faster but they will use a lot less power and and have much better integrated graphics without the need of a dedicated GPU. This way laptops with Broadwell will produce less heat, less noise and have longer battery life.
Skylake. on the other side of the balance, will bring a new microarchitecture, which is more radical in its innovations (PCIe 4.0, DDR4, NVMe, +). Many of these will finally erase latency blocks and long held limitations, that Yes, affect serial data (hence audio) in novel, improved ways.
That said, a final consideration, Broadwell was delayed one year over its planned release date... Skylake had a H2 2015 release date, so its delay release is probably on order and hence our waiting time might be extended... Still, if you may reasonably wait for for 2016 or H1 2017 for those superb future-proof laptops, then hold it and check the nicest upgrades to your existing platform. That is what I am happily doing now.
///If you take in account a superb specced Laptop like Precision M3800 was achieved in hardware already, it is an excellent predictor that the longer battery life Broadwell 14nm node brings together with the novel Skylake platforms will gift us a totally radical mobile DAW... at 2016 summer as best scenario or early 2017, which would be just
!!!-
- KVRAF
- 5805 posts since 8 May, 2008 from ssssskipping ......... I left you there
Most laptops will use Broadwell, Skylake aims to the desktop market. If you want a laptop with Skylake you will probably need to order a custom one.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig."
-
- KVRist
- 338 posts since 19 Jul, 2013 from Chile
Au contraire!standalone wrote:Most laptops will use Broadwell, Skylake aims to the desktop market. If you want a laptop with Skylake you will probably need to order a custom one.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/28 ... -year.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2865877/ ... -year.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2893112/ ... rvers.html
-
- KVRAF
- 35405 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Can't help but think the OP enjoys very much opening one thread after the other, looking at the reactions. Or not looking at the thread anymore at all. Or posting absolutely irrelevant videos as a reply: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1#p6093761
-
- KVRAF
- 5805 posts since 8 May, 2008 from ssssskipping ......... I left you there
Well, it's he, himself and then the rest of us, no kidding ...
I'm glad to see that HP and Dell don't follow Apple's lead and bet on performance over miniaturization.
I'm glad to see that HP and Dell don't follow Apple's lead and bet on performance over miniaturization.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig."
-
el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007 - KVRAF
- 16369 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
there's something really bizarre going on, f'surechk071 wrote:Can't help but think the OP enjoys very much opening one thread after the other, looking at the reactions. Or not looking at the thread anymore at all. Or posting absolutely irrelevant videos as a reply: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1#p6093761
-
- KVRist
- 338 posts since 19 Jul, 2013 from Chile
Today's news confirm that Skylake H -Mobile- processors start to be launched in just a few months:Nspace wrote:I suggest waiting for Intel 6th generation -Skylake- (...), will bring a new microarchitecture, which is more radical in its innovations (PCIe 4.0, DDR4, NVMe, +). Many of these will finally erase latency blocks and long held limitations, that Yes, affect serial data (hence audio) in novel, improved ways.
///If you take in account a superb specced Laptop like Precision M3800 was achieved in hardware already, it is an excellent predictor that the longer battery life Broadwell 14nm node brings together with the novel Skylake platforms will gift us a totally radical mobile DAW... at 2016 summer as best scenario or early 2017, which would be just
"First Skylake-H models will be Core i3-6100H, Core i5-6300HQ, Core i7-6700HQ and Core i7-6820HK. They will be available in September. The lineup will be expanded by Core i5-6440HQ, i7-6820HQ and i7-6920HQ in October - November 2015. Intel will also introduce two Xeon-branded "Skylake-H" processors, the E3-1505M v5 and E3-1535M v5."
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015 ... ssors.html
Still not much info about CPUs specifics. For those interested there is an Anandtech's thread gathering the bits.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread. ... 63&page=31
///If the above becomes reality, we could reasonably expect that in as early as 2016 Q1, manufacturers will begin to release those DAW's Laptops that finally leap into very-relevant-for-Audio next generation specs: DDR4 RAM, NVMe M.2, Thunderbolt2, gigable/rehearsalable battery life, and all built into a lightweight, durable, serviceable mobile Workstation.
PD:The remaining question is if Microsoft will honor its decades long built Windows platform, therefore honors the trust invested by thousands of developers, hardware and software makers and us customers, or it will try to shove us a Windows as a service, pay-for-use/pay-for-time scheme, forcing security and stability updates into W10 and possibly W7 and W8, if we users don't pay attention.
