Amp - DAW wiring advice

[maudioradium]

Hi,

I'm after some wiring advice.

I have a standard computer DAW with a ESI Maya 22 USB from ESI http://www.esi-audio.com/products/maya22usb/ which acts as my primary sound and recording device. I have my headphones connected to the output and it works well (no latency).


I now want to connect the output to my home speakers (DX1-HCP) http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/product.php?pid=35 through my Yamaha RX-379 amp http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-vi ... _black__u/. Unfortunately, there is an unfixable (small) latency between the input signal (via phono) and output signal. Therefore, I'm seeking a solution to wire the output of the ESI Maya 22 directly to the (small) speakers, in order to remove the latency.


I just want to confirm if this is possible, and if so, how is it done? (Do I simply insert the standard 1/4" TRS (jack) cables into the output of the Maya 22, then cut the other end of the wire and put it into the amps speaker wire outputs?


Thank you.

[PapaLazarou]

No, that is not going to work. The satellite speakers in that home theatre speaker package are passive, meaning they have no amplifier built into them. The USB audio interface does not have any speaker level output. Simply put you need an amp to drive those speakers.

I'm surprised you're getting latency from the amp, as long as it's in direct mode and not one of the home theatre modes which add processing.

Edit running a Trs cable from your audio interface to the speaker terminals on the amp will probably blow the interface, amp or both.

[maudioradium]

No, that is not going to work. The satellite speakers in that home theatre speaker package are passive, meaning they have no amplifier built into them. The USB audio interface does not have any speaker level output. Simply put you need an amp to drive those speakers.

I know that these are passive speakers, but if I combined the amps own wires to the speaker inserts, surely the audio signal would then mix in with the existing cables?

I'm surprised you're getting latency from the amp, as long as it's in direct mode and not one of the home theatre modes which add processing.

Well, I have tried everything, I've turned off all effects, all dsp, used in 2 channel and straight mode. Tried outputting to its headphone socket, I have also tried the aux input, again same thing.

Edit running a Trs cable from your audio interface to the speaker terminals on the amp will probably blow the interface, amp or both.

Well, in that case, I need some more advice.

Anyone else know what to do in this situation?

[BertKoor]

Nono, let's not get funky with patching cables. That surely won't do any good. You might indeed blow up everything.

First let's check I / we actually understand your problem...
With headphones directly into your interface you don't experience any latency. Right? Then with audio routed to your amp you get extra latency. Also on the headphone socket of the amp?

Is this while playing back only, or are you also recording midi or something else?

[maudioradium]

Nono, let's not get funky with patching cables. That surely won't do any good. You might indeed blow up everything.

First let's check I / we actually understand your problem...
With headphones directly into your interface you don't experience any latency. Right?

Correct, which points to the amp being the device introducing latency.

Then with audio routed to your amp you get extra latency. Also on the headphone socket of the amp?

Correct also.

Is this while playing back only, or are you also recording midi or something else?

It is with anything. Guitar, midi.

I am happy to buy a device to to get this working. I was hoping to find an easy solution that didn't involve, for example, having to switch every single speaker cable into a different amp each time I want to hear computer audio.

[BertKoor]

Well it's possible the latency is not caused by your amp. It could be a setting in the config panel that routes inputs directly to the phones but not to the main outputs. Hard to say... And currently on a phone I can't review the user manual pdf and give you targeted advice.

If this is the only amp you have access to, you can not confirm or rule out it causes latency. It would be a first for me. Otherwise the audi sync of movies would be compromised.

So what you need is guidance in getting the same out of mains as from the headphones.

[maudioradium]

If this is the only amp you have access to, you can not confirm or rule out it causes latency. It would be a first for me. Otherwise the audi sync of movies would be compromised.

If I connect my headphones to the output jack of the maya 22 usb and receive no latency, and then, with the exact same jack and connect it to my amps input, and a delay of exactly 80ms is introduced on the speakers - how could it not be the amp?

So what you need is guidance in getting the same out of mains as from the headphones.

Actually, the amp (RX379) has the same 80ms delay from both the speakers and its headphone socket.

[BertKoor]

Then you know what to do: sell that amp and buy a no nonsense one instead.

[maudioradium]

Then you know what to do: sell that amp and buy a no nonsense one instead.

Can you tell me which 5.1 amp is a "non nonense" one which doesn't introduce 80ms delay? Thanks.

[BertKoor]

Sorry, 5.1 is not my expertise. In my living room I have (had) good < $300 amps from Sony, Marantz, Akai, Technics, currently Nad. All pure analog 2.0 sound, guaranteed zero latency.

[maudioradium]

Sorry, 5.1 is not my expertise. In my living room I have (had) good < $300 amps from Sony, Marantz, Akai, Technics, currently Nad. All pure analog 2.0 sound, guaranteed zero latency.

Some people here will have experience in making soundtracks/audio with 5.1 setup (things like 5.1 music, or 5.1 sound tracks). Therefore they will use an amp to provide this. I just need to know what the situation is.

I've asked on another forum as well.

[PapaLazarou]

I know that these are passive speakers, but if I combined the amps own wires to the speaker inserts, surely the audio signal would then mix in with the existing cables?

No they operate at different levels. Speakers generally in the 10's of volts AC, while line level outputs are lower voltage. I don't know exactly what would happen, but I don't expect it would be good.

Sorry, 5.1 is not my expertise. In my living room I have (had) good < $300 amps from Sony, Marantz, Akai, Technics, currently Nad. All pure analog 2.0 sound, guaranteed zero latency.

Many HT receivers have a "source direct" mode which are supposed to give the most direct signal path from source to output, bypassing any of the processing and room compensation which may be done otherwise. That is the case on both my Marantz and Denon AV receivers. On the Yamaha that is the "Straight" mode.

It *shouldn't* be introducing latency in this mode with an analogue 2 channel input, although obviously it's happening and you're measuring it so I'm a bit stumped

If you don't have another amp to try to categorically rule that in or out, do you have any active speakers, old PC speakers etc?

[maudioradium]

If you don't have another amp to try to categorically rule that in or out, do you have any active speakers, old PC speakers etc?

Here is the setups:

A. I put my headphones into the maya 22 usb headphones out, no delay.

B. I put a cable from the same headphones out on maya 22, and into the input of the amp, 80ms delay [from both the speakers, and also when I plug in headphones into the headphone jack on amp]. This is in straight mode. I have tried all the different modes.

If it isn't the amp, are you suggesting its the speakers theirselves?

I know unequivocally that the maya output is in correct time.

[PapaLazarou]

No, it's extremely unlikely to be the speakers. There's obviously a delay from the cones moving to the sound reaching your listening position, which is what room compensation settings on these amps are all about (typically you sit closer to the rear surround speakers, so most of the time after setting up correctly you'll have a slight delay on the rear speakers to compensate). But unless you are a very long way from the speakers this doesn't sound a likely explanation for an 80 ms delay... If you are connecting the same headphone output then that does point at the amp introducing the delay. Just surprising is all

I can't offer any tips on 5.1 setups for this purpose as I use (stereo) active studio monitors with my PC, which don't as far as I can tell introduce any latency, and my AV amp for watching movies etc.

[maudioradium]

No, it's extremely unlikely to be the speakers. There's obviously a delay from the cones moving to the sound reaching your listening position, which is what room compensation settings on these amps are all about (typically you sit closer to the rear surround speakers, so most of the time after setting up correctly you'll have a slight delay on the rear speakers to compensate). But unless you are a very long way from the speakers this doesn't sound a likely explanation for an 80 ms delay... If you are connecting the same headphone output then that does point at the amp introducing the delay. Just surprising is all

I can't offer any tips on 5.1 setups for this purpose as I use (stereo) active studio monitors with my PC, which don't as far as I can tell introduce any latency, and my AV amp for watching movies etc.

Yes, I also changed the distance settings, too. But those settings and the others disable theirselves when you put headphones in the amp. However, again, this doesn't remove the 80ms delay.

It's a real kick in the balls because I was hoping that paying £200 ($300) on an amp, I'd be able to play my guitar through it.

I'll call up yamaha tomorrow with zero hope for a solution.

However, I'm still seeking any alternatives someone might know. Perhaps a low cost amp, together with some sort of manual switch unit.