KVR Audio

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Wed May 03, 2017 6:19 pm

A while back, I posted in Hosts asking if anyone was using Win10 with FireWire: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7&t=483490

The response was deafening. At least, left me wondering if I'd gone deaf the silence was so loud...

So, I'm now left considering if it's time to put my Echo AudioFire out to pasture.

My needs are time:
- MIDI In (and Out) with excellent timing
- Audio Out - phones and L+R pair with same signal - with really low latency
- No MIDI Dongle-type stuff

And that's it. I don't need Audio In at all... but I guess I don't get to avoid it.

I'm far more concerned about getting a good, responsive interface than about cost -- but I don't want to pay for things I don't use unnecessarily. The AudioFire4 was the smallest version with everything I needed in one box. At the time, FireWire beat USB hands down, no questions. Now, I'm open. I've a USB 3 port (quite an early one - ASUS M5A99X Evo R2.0 motherboard) as well as the FireWire400 card I added for the Echo.

So, has USB3's time come? Is there a good alternative to my AF4 out there?

ontol · Post by **ontol** » Thu May 04, 2017 4:01 am

I am building a new PC this Fall, and had considered getting a Firewire card and upgrading to a FW interface. I saw your other thread and was hoping for some replies as your troubles gave me pause.

Sorry I couldn't help you with the problem, but wanted to at least let you know others were interested in your query as well.

Throbert · Post by **Throbert** » Thu May 04, 2017 5:42 am

Just went through a thread @ Gearslutz It starts off about this guy apparently having major problems with his PC and others chiming in with diagnostic suggestions. They move on to his firewire card and a few well respected pro builders post in about what is and isn't working with the newer MOBOs. The older legacy TI boards aren't working any more, and you have to use the newer TI firewire 800 boards that also have the legacey 400 port (if i understood right). Any ways they had the board numbers posted and all and I thought this might help you out.
throb

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Thu May 04, 2017 3:01 pm

Yeah, that would have been me on the other thread. To save anyone trailing through it the crux of it is as follows:

The legacy Texas Instruments chip that no longer works is the TI XIO 2200A.

The current one that is known to be good is the TI XIO 2213B and is found on the triple port cards normally in a 2 X 800 + 1 X 400.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:23 pm

Is there any way to tell what the card chipset is without opening up and squinting at the card?

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:31 pm

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:42 pm

Aloysius wrote:Git yer wire oot of the fire.

ABBA

Do you think you are funny?

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:45 pm

Numanoid wrote: ABBA

Do you think you are funny?

My name is not ABBA. Try and sober up before posting next time.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:47 pm

Sadly, Firewire is a standard on its last legs. Once Apple tossed it out for Thunderbolt it's floundered and slowly died. It never really took off in the PC space. It's a good protocol and design, but it's one that companies don't design new products for any longer. This looks like another case of a "good enough" technology (USB2) winning over a technologically superior one.

There are quite a few good low-latency USB2 devices and a search around this site should yield you at least 6-8 threads discussing the various offerings. For USB3 the market is a lot smaller and the one that keeps coming up is the Zoom UAC-2 although I've never used it.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:58 pm

pljones wrote:At the time, FireWire beat USB hands down, no questions.

For a while FW beat USB2 when using many audio channels (inputs/outputs). Since you don't care for many outputs/inputs, FW's old advantage was lost on you.
"no questions" is for consumers blindly following marketing hype.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Thu May 04, 2017 10:16 pm

T-CM11 wrote:
pljones wrote:At the time, FireWire beat USB hands down, no questions.
For a while FW beat USB2 when using many audio channels (inputs/outputs). Since you don't care for many outputs/inputs, FW's old advantage was lost on you.
"no questions" is for consumers blindly following marketing hype.

I care about latency. At the time, USB for audio had poor latency in comparison with FireWire in everything I saw. MIDI over USB was also pretty dodgy in a lot of cases.

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Fri May 05, 2017 8:56 am

pljones wrote:Is there any way to tell what the card chipset is without opening up and squinting at the card?

Only if someone was kind enough to print it on the box, or Google happens to know the answer.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Fri May 05, 2017 3:33 pm

pljones wrote:
T-CM11 wrote:
pljones wrote:At the time, FireWire beat USB hands down, no questions.
For a while FW beat USB2 when using many audio channels (inputs/outputs). Since you don't care for many outputs/inputs, FW's old advantage was lost on you.
"no questions" is for consumers blindly following marketing hype.
I care about latency. At the time, USB for audio had poor latency in comparison with FireWire in everything I saw. MIDI over USB was also pretty dodgy in a lot of cases.

"At the time" -> When was this and for how long? Are you talking about USB1 or USB2? Which USB audio interfaces had poor latency? Which USB midi interfaces were dodgy?
If this is all gut feeling, hearsay and maybe an experience or two - how about you just admit it?

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Fri May 05, 2017 4:08 pm

T-CM11 wrote:If this is all gut feeling, hearsay and maybe an experience or two - how about you just admit it?

Er, why are you taking this personally?

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Fri May 05, 2017 5:01 pm

pljones wrote:Er, why are you taking this personally?

I'm not. I'd just like to hear more about it, and not just vague generalised statements. And if you have some specific experiences, why not share them with us?

It sounds like you're telling us that you want a new FW interface because USB once was bad but not anymore. So why necessarily FW again then? And why USB3? I've never heard of USB3 giving lower latency then USB2.

My experience with FW: My Motu Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid works great in both USB & Firewire mode. Though in USB mode I sometimes don't get any sound until I restart Cubase again. No idea what causes it. And I'm not using Firewire anymore because the FW expresscard sticks too far out.

I'd love to replace it with an RME, but I just can't justify the expense right now.
AFAIK, USB2 can handle at least 16 channels without issues (enough for me). Thunderbolt interfaces are way out of my price range! (and I don't want to replace my laptop anyway)

Time to get off Firewire? Where to?