New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[Zexila]

Because if you are wanting to prove an argument how much comparable thing actually cost, than you need to do it like that, so again, for the sake of proving something, do it properly, you go and build waverer thing you want, don't care, but don't show up in this thread calling it comparable to 5k iMac when it's clearly not, end of discussion.

You say it clearly not, I say it clearly do. Now, can we agree on disagree?

You value whatever you do, I value whatever I do. Clearly, if all people would have the same line of thought I have, Apple would be bankrupt by now. Fortunately for them, some people seem to think like you.

For me, as long as I build a computer that outperforms the iMac Pro, I had achieve my goal, no matter how many "k's" I have or miss. And I can assemble one way cheaper, and using better components.

We clearly disagree, so yeah, let's drop it.

[keyman_sam]

Dear fmr,

ON PAPER Windows is no worse than or better than OS X. Life doesn't run on paper. In real life Apple has control over A-Z of their components AND software and this gives them a huge competitive advantage. If your neighbor's Mac works well, chances are yours will too. With PCs it's largely hit or miss. This coming from a PC user who's used PCs for 20 years.

So right now one of my windows 7 machine refuses to wake up from sleep (fans spin up thats it). How do I troubleshoot? Or am I too dumb that I can't see the very obvious solution? Please enlighten me, sir.

I'll take it one step further - if you end up resolving my issue your coffee is on me.

[rodanmusic]

I got seven years smooth running out of my first Macbook Pro

I still have a 12" PowerBook G4 from 2004 that, apart from a depleted battery, runs as well as on the day of purchase.

I have an old PC with a 486 (or Pentium, don't remember anymore) CPU (right now it is like 20 years old) that still runs, and as well as it was running at day one

Oh, and I also have a Power Mac 7100/80 which again still runs as well as it was running at day one. And it has two sound cards inside, and space for a third one, something I cannot do in any current Mac model

(admitedly, at that time, Apple was building much better machines than nowadays. comparatively)

I have a Tandy 1000 TL/3 that still works the same as when it was manufactured... It has 3-channel digital audio and everything

I miss my Tandy 1000. Loved that thing.

[stratology]

Here's the John Gruber talk with Phil Schiller and Craig Federighi from WWDC 2017.

They talk at length about the current iMac line up, the new iMac Pro, external GPUs, the pro market, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcyaadNy9Jk



This may actually be a good one to watch and learn for the PC guys who still think Macs are about looks...

[VariKusBrainZ]

With PCs it's largely hit or miss. This coming from a PC user who's used PCs for 20 years.

Dears Sir,

You've just outed yourself as an old n00b, this coming from a PC user who's used PCs for over 20 years

[iTzPrime]

Lots of photograph and film editing people I know use the 5k display and love it. It is quite cheap compared to others. Just because you don't use it doesnt mean others don't either.
If you compare the price of the iMac with a comparable PC please reduce the price by 1.5k because of the display.

Now, you seem to contradict yourself. The display costs 1.5K but is quite cheap compared to others? What others? Links please, so we can judge by ourselves.

And I don't have to reduce anything, as long as I put a display in it (which I, as the majority around here, already have, BTW - we can REUSE the display we already have). I don't give a shit about 1.5K displays, anyway. I am no photographer nor film editor. Nor are many other "pros". You may have not noticed, but this is a forum about audio and audio plug-ins. I believe that video and photography, if they interest the majority of people around here, are just as hobbys. And, at least to me, money costs, and waste hurts.

Compared to screens from Dell, LG which have similar resolution, brightness and are appropriate for color grading, 1.5k is quite cheap for the screen.

It is a ALL-IN-ONE. Which means the display is included if you want or not. If you don't want the display than don't get an iMac, but don't argue about value of money if you try to compare the price of an ALL-IN-ONE with a PC without any peripherals or proper display.

And the iMac Pro is largely aimed at photographers, film editors and companies in the marketing/webdevelopment world. In this forum they might be a minority, but they are out there and there are a lot more photographers and film editors than pros in audio. I hardly doubt they would sell more if they replace the screen with an HD display.

Why bother? Why bother replying to my posts to make comparisons that are just not comparable at all.

Your comparison: PC that i build myself and this cheap hd display has similar horsepower than this iMac with this screen i don't need.
A proper comparison: this PC, that has an aluminum chasis, combined with a comparable display , peripherals and horsepower --- how that compares to the iMac.

Don't get me wrong. I find the iMac is overpriced. And it isn't suited for you. And that is fine. Just don't try to compare things that are not comparable.

P.S Apple has great support plans for companies. You probably don't care, because you don't need the shit screen, but troubleshooting a self-build pc, vs getting it replaced in less than an hour is quite a difference.

[keyman_sam]

With PCs it's largely hit or miss. This coming from a PC user who's used PCs for 20 years.

Dears Sir,

You've just outed yourself as an old n00b, this coming from a PC user who's used PCs for over 20 years

Yup what do I know. Looks like PCs are meant for smuurt people like yourself and Macs for dummies like me.

Kind sir, since you're a pro, do you have any idea how to fix a PC that doesn't wake up from sleep? Or is that beyond your expertise?

[fmr]

So right now one of my windows 7 machine refuses to wake up from sleep (fans spin up thats it). How do I troubleshoot? Or am I too dumb that I can't see the very obvious solution? Please enlighten me, sir.

I'll take it one step further - if you end up resolving my issue your coffee is on me.

If you were near me, you'b bet I would solve your problem. Oh, and I have more than 20 years with Windows (I started with Windows 3.0). Buth then, I have even more (slightly more) with Mac OS (I started with Mac OS 6.0.x).

So, I can say to you, that the fact my neighbour's Mac works OK doesn't mean anything. My Mac can fail out fof the blue, just like your PC did. I KNOW - it already happened to me. The statement that Macs don't fail IS A MYTH.

[fmr]

And the iMac Pro is largely aimed at photographers, film editors and companies in the marketing/webdevelopment world. In this forum they might be a minority, but they are out there and there are a lot more photographers and film editors than pros in audio. I hardly doubt they would sell more if they replace the screen with an HD display.

WOW, I didn't knew photographers and film editors were SO WELL paid. It seems I chose wrong

Why bother? Why bother replying to my posts to make comparisons that are just not comparable at all.

In your opinion... But then, to you no PC is comparable to ANY Mac, so

Your comparison: PC that i build myself and this cheap hd display has similar horsepower than this iMac with this screen i don't need.
A proper comparison: this PC, that has an aluminum chasis, combined with a comparable display , peripherals and horsepower --- how that compares to the iMac.

And here we go again. Why does the HD display have to be a "cheap HD"? Sure, it is way cheaper than a 5K display, but I can as well throw in a 4K display (or even two), if that makes you happy - I believe that even with two NOT CHEAP, BUT STILL CHEAPER 4K displays it will still be cheaper.

And regarding the aluminum chassis - why aluminum? Why not Titanium? Or Silver? Or Gold? I think my next PC will have a custom ordered golden plated chassis - just to make it more expensive

This really ilustrates the way of thinking of all Mac addicts... Let's just spend money, because we can. Let's pay $200 for something that worth only $100, because we have that special "status". It's the same way of thinking of people that buy Prada or Louis Vuitton, or Ferrari or Maseratti, and that I despise.

Regarding the peripherals, and horsepower... Bullshit, as I already stated.

Don't get me wrong. I find the iMac is overpriced. And it isn't suited for you. And that is fine. Just don't try to compare things that are not comparable.

P.S Apple has great support plans for companies. You probably don't care, because you don't need the shit screen, but troubleshooting a self-build pc, vs getting it replaced in less than an hour is quite a difference.

You can contract that same support from anyo company - it's just a matter of money. Actually for the premium price you pay, you may very well just buy a new machine and install an image of the damaged one - it's the same thing you just described. No troubleshooting necessary. But the point is I CAN troubleshoot my self-built PC, and you CAN't troubleshoot your Mac. I CAN replace components in my self-built PC, and you can't on your Mac (actually, YOU CAN, but that's another story).

Why bother?

This is the only point we agree upon.

[Zexila]

Nvmnd.

[iTzPrime]

WOW, I didn't knew photographers and film editors were SO WELL paid. It seems I chose wrong

Generally they are paid above the average salary. Buying a new computer every few years should be no problems if you have a good spending plan. The average pay in the company I work for is 3900$ a month for a video editor, if you then remove the taxes we are at 2.4k $.

In your opinion... But then, to you no PC is comparable to ANY Mac, so

Actually you can compare it no problem. But if you want to make a comparison make a fair one. A proper comparison would be the Mac Pros and a PC.

And here we go again. Why does the HD display have to be a "cheap HD"? Sure, it is way cheaper than a 5K display, but I can as well throw in a 4K display (or even two), if that makes you happy - I believe that even with two NOT CHEAP, BUT STILL CHEAPER 4K displays it will still be cheaper.

There is a difference between 4k and 4k. You can probably buy an 8k screen for 1.5k. Will it be appropriate for color grading. Probably not.

And regarding the aluminum chassis - why aluminum? Why not Titanium? Or Silver? Or Gold? I think my next PC will have a custom ordered golden plated chassis - just to make it more expensive

You can make it titanium, or silver or gold. Just something that has a good build quality. More often than not people compare cheapy plastic parts with an aluminum chasis. If you are happy with the plastic parts no problem. I am certainly not.

This really ilustrates the way of thinking of all Mac addicts... Let's just spend money, because we can. Let's pay $200 for something that worth only $100, because we have that special "status". It's the same way of thinking of people that buy Prada or Louis Vuitton, or Ferrari or Maseratti, and that I despise.

Mac addict? Are you sure you are talking to the right person. And if you think there is only one reason people buy apple, prada or louis vuitton, ferrari or any other luxury articles you are quite mistaken.
My glasses are from Prada. Not once do I thought about it as a status symbol. They were the most comfortable and they looked great on me so I got them.
For you that 200$ part might be worth 100$, for others it is worth 300$. It is subjective .

You can contract that same support from anyo company - it's just a matter of money. Actually for the premium price you pay, you may very well just buy a new machine and install an image of the damaged one - it's the same thing you just described. No troubleshooting necessary. But the point is I CAN troubleshoot my self-built PC, and you CAN't troubleshoot your Mac. I CAN replace components in my self-built PC, and you can't on your Mac (actually, YOU CAN, but that's another story).

You can get support from any other company, but then the price argument or "worth" of the PC is pretty much nullified, because you have to get a pc from Dell or similar companies and the price will be very similar if you add displays.

Imagine this: You as a company buy 80 self-build pcs. Now with your logic we buy 160 because of the "premium price" of the iMac. Now who puts them all together? Who puts up all the additional displays and connects everything? Either you do it yourself and a lot of time is wasted or, you pay someone to do it. In which case, the price argument probably falls flat again.
Now if something goes down, sure you can more easily replace it, but where do you store all the spare pcs. As a company space is money and if you have to rent additional space just to store some spare parts a lot of money is wasted.
Also then again you need a person in the company who can replace the parts. Again money. With the apple support plan, you call them and a maximum of 20 minutes later, they brought a new mac and talk the damaged on with you. Getting the image works automaticlly via network and a script. Don't know if that is possible for PC.

[fmr]

In your opinion... But then, to you no PC is comparable to ANY Mac, so

Actually you can compare it no problem. But if you want to make a comparison make a fair one. A proper comparison would be the Mac Pros and a PC.

Oh boy, if we enter the Mac Pro territory, then things will look even worse for Macs

And here we go again. Why does the HD display have to be a "cheap HD"? Sure, it is way cheaper than a 5K display, but I can as well throw in a 4K display (or even two), if that makes you happy - I believe that even with two NOT CHEAP, BUT STILL CHEAPER 4K displays it will still be cheaper.

There is a difference between 4k and 4k. You can probably buy an 8k screen for 1.5k. Will it be appropriate for color grading. Probably not.

Noy I am lost. Do you mind to translate "There is a difference between 4k and 4k" for me? And, although I never saw an 8k display, why wouldn't it be appropriate for color grading? And why is the 5k appropriate? It seems we are talking very specialized stuff here, and I am in no way an expert in video or photography. But we have been discussng computers for audio anyway

And regarding the aluminum chassis - why aluminum? Why not Titanium? Or Silver? Or Gold? I think my next PC will have a custom ordered golden plated chassis - just to make it more expensive

You can make it titanium, or silver or gold. Just something that has a good build quality. More often than not people compare cheapy plastic parts with an aluminum chasis. If you are happy with the plastic parts no problem. I am certainly not.

Who mentioned "cheapy plastic" parts? Are there cases made of plastic for sale, even? I have to confess I never saw one. All the PCs I built had very rough and solid metal cases (actually, quite heavy). Actually, I had Macs in the past that had plastic (acrylic) cases, and the case of my Power Mac G5 Quad, although in aluminum is not as rough as any of the cases of the PCs I built. Yet, none of tose cases costed a fortune. But they were not aluminum or any other expensive metal, they were made of common painted steel or some other common metal alloy.

This really ilustrates the way of thinking of all Mac addicts... Let's just spend money, because we can. Let's pay $200 for something that worth only $100, because we have that special "status". It's the same way of thinking of people that buy Prada or Louis Vuitton, or Ferrari or Maseratti, and that I despise.

Mac addict? Are you sure you are talking to the right person. And if you think there is only one reason people buy apple, prada or louis vuitton, ferrari or any other luxury articles you are quite mistaken.
My glasses are from Prada. Not once do I thought about it as a status symbol. They were the most comfortable and they looked great on me so I got them.
For you that 200$ part might be worth 100$, for others it is worth 300$. It is subjective .

And of course you could not buy some similar glasses except from Prada

This very much illustrates what I said. The fact that you entered a store where the specific kind of glasses you looked for only existed from Prada says it all...

You can contract that same support from any company - it's just a matter of money. Actually for the premium price you pay, you may very well just buy a new machine and install an image of the damaged one - it's the same thing you just described. No troubleshooting necessary. But the point is I CAN troubleshoot my self-built PC, and you CAN't troubleshoot your Mac. I CAN replace components in my self-built PC, and you can't on your Mac (actually, YOU CAN, but that's another story).

You can get support from any other company, but then the price argument or "worth" of the PC is pretty much nullified, because you have to get a pc from Dell or similar companies and the price will be very similar if you add displays.

Imagine this: You as a company buy 80 self-build pcs. Now with your logic we buy 160 because of the "premium price" of the iMac. Now who puts them all together? Who puts up all the additional displays and connects everything? Either you do it yourself and a lot of time is wasted or, you pay someone to do it. In which case, the price argument probably falls flat again.
Now if something goes down, sure you can more easily replace it, but where do you store all the spare pcs. As a company space is money and if you have to rent additional space just to store some spare parts a lot of money is wasted.
Also then again you need a person in the company who can replace the parts. Again money. With the apple support plan, you call them and a maximum of 20 minutes later, they brought a new mac and talk the damaged on with you. Getting the image works automatically via network and a script. Don't know if that is possible for PC.

I was being sarcastic.

Of course I would never buy two PCs for each working post. If, and when a PC fails, I can immediately get a replacement, IF I cannot solve the problem (which I usually can). Anyway, you are certainly aware the vast majority of companies DON'T choose Apple, instead they use PCs with Windows. Since price is not the issue here (according to you), I wonder why is it that Apple doesn't enter the corporate world, despite it's "superiority". I am curious to read your explanation. BTW - I never said a company the buys 60 PCs would assemble them in-house. Of course that, in that scenario, they would make a contract with some supplier, and with assistance included. Nevertheless, those contracts are usually way cheaper for Windows based PCs than they are for Macs, let alone the fact that the OS is supported for much longer (do you imagine a company installing a new OS every year, or every two years?)

Anyway, nothing of this has to do with the fact that PCs are cheaper than Macs. The only way to get a PC closer to a Mac in terms of price is through artificially adding unnecessary items and luxuries to it.

[Guenon]

My glasses are from Prada. Not once do I thought about it as a status symbol. They were the most comfortable and they looked great on me so I got them.
For you that 200$ part might be worth 100$, for others it is worth 300$. It is subjective .

Your glasses aren't "from Prada." Prada doesn't actually design or manufacture glasses. Luxottica designs, manufactures and distributes/sells glasses and sunglasses and slaps on the Prada logo, among numerous other brand logos. The price is high because they can keep it high, not because it's somehow representative of the quality. Nothing wrong with "they were the most comfortable and looked great on me", of course.

However, it's one of those things that would make me go, "why would I want to support that instead of finding something of more high quality, genuinely representative of the sum I paid?" - in other words, in my opinion Prada is hardly a good argument for paying extra for a computer system or supporting the policies of some particular computer system designer/manufacturer that exhibits problems like the ones outlined in this thread. It's more like an example of the opposite.

https://fashionunited.uk/news/fashion/l ... 5051916457
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUiWOGv8ec

[iTzPrime]

Oh boy, if we enter the Mac Pro territory, then things will look even worse for Macs

And rightfully so. It is a freaking shame that apple doesn't provide an upgrade to their mac pro line since forever.

Noy I am lost. Do you mind to translate "There is a difference between 4k and 4k" for me? And, although I never saw an 8k display, why wouldn't it be appropriate for color grading? And why is the 5k appropriate? It seems we are talking very specialized stuff here, and I am in no way an expert in video or photography. But we have been discussng computers for audio anyway

Well 4k, 8k and stuff like that are just resolutions. But this shade of red isn't always that shade of red on different screens. If you look into an electronic store and the displays have the same testpicture you notice obvious differences despite them having the same resolution. Just like in Audio you want to have the screen (in audio the monitor) that represents the most accurate looking picture (or sound) of the video(audio). And after and during the process u use reference displays. Just like you would use reference monitors , your phone or your car for mixing.

For audio, I would rather have the newest Macbook Pro, which when specced out is probably in the ballpark of the iMac Pro starting point and probably not a whole lot worse and offers portability.

Who mentioned "cheapy plastic" parts? Are there cases made of plastic for sale, even? I have to confess I never saw one. All the PCs I built had very rough and solid metal cases (actually, quite heavy). Actually, I had Macs in the past that had plastic (acrylic) cases, and the case of my Power Mac G5 Quad, although in aluminum is not as rough as any of the cases of the PCs I built. Yet, none of tose cases costed a fortune. But they were not aluminum or any other expensive metal, they were made of common painted steel or some other common metal alloy.

I saw quite a lot of cheap plasticy cases. But if there are solid metal case it is awesome.

And of course you could not buy some similar glasses except from Prada

This very much illustrates what I said. The fact that you entered a store where the specific kind of glasses you looked for only existed from Prada says it all...

My old glasses were broken after 5 years of using them daily. I hate shopping . I go to my glass store that I have been a customer since I was 5. I tell them what color I want, they show me a few and in less than an hour I am done and everything is ordered. There were several different ones that were looking similar to the pradas'. Prada was the most comfortable. Compared to my special glasses (the glas that is in the glasses. don't know the english word) I need because of my eye disorder the frame of the glasses seem cheap, so I just get what i like in terms of look and comfort. I actually realized that they were from Prada when a friend of mine pointed it out to me a few days later.

I wonder why is it that Apple doesn't enter the corporate world, despite it's "superiority". I am curious to read your explanation. BTW - I never said a company the buys 60 PCs would assemble them in-house. Of course that, in that scenario, they would make a contract with some supplier, and with assistance included. Nevertheless, those contracts are usually way cheaper for Windows based PCs than they are for Macs, let alone the fact that the OS is supported for much longer (do you imagine a company installing a new OS every year, or every two years?)

Again depends on the industry. In the marketing, webdevelopment and video editing world where I work, Mac tend to dominate because there is the need to have the most up to date software and the resale value is a lot greater. In the company I work for, and a few other companies I know, all the hardware except printers get upgraded every two years.

Of course you are right with the overall numbers. A government, taxes, insurance or any other industry that doesn't have the necessity to upgrade every few years, will take PC over Mac. Not only because of the cost (if you work in a government office, most of the time you don't need a cpu and gpu designed for video editing), but because of the familiarity with users that don't know a lot of technology (windows is a monopoly with more than 80% of all computers sold running with some kind of Windows).

Short story time: So a two years ago, the company I worked for used windows PC. Pretty much the best you could get (they had some workstation gpu that was more than a thousand bucks). So they upgraded to windows 10 and the first year everything went great. They disabled automatic and forced updates and updated all the pc's every wednesday after making sure everything would work on a test system. So we had a really big advertisment deal with a brand, you all know, and the deadline was in a few days. Everything was finished in terms of editing, 3D modeling and post-production. We now only needed to render the product. Usually it takes around 12 hours to render the product in the highest quality with a bunch of computers rendering at the same time. Guess what windows 10 did? they forced the upgrade and broke avid media composer. Well the company missed the deadline. Two days later we all had macs. Compared to the money the company lost, it was peanuts and we never missed a deadline since.

Your glasses aren't "from Prada." Prada doesn't actually design or manufacture glasses. Luxottica designs, manufactures and distributes/sells glasses and sunglasses and slaps on the Prada logo, among numerous other brand logos. The price is high because they can keep it high, not because it's somehow representative of the quality. Nothing wrong with "they were the most comfortable and looked great on me", of course.

However, it's one of those things that would make me go, "why would I want to support that instead of finding something of more high quality, genuinely representative of the sum I paid?" - in other words, in my opinion Prada is hardly a good argument for paying extra for a computer system or supporting the policies of some particular computer system designer/manufacturer that exhibits problems like the ones outlined in this thread. It's more like an example of the opposite.

Wow, I didn't know that, thank you for that article it was a marvelous read! Really well written.
Like explained above, the frames of the glasses no matter if they are from Prada or any other brand are really cheap compared to my special glasses (the glasses inside the glasses). I usually wear my glasses until they break and as a rule of thump that is 4-5 years.

If I get something that is a higher quality that is great. Most of the time it is involved with a lot of research, and I don't really want to spend my time for that.

[fmr]

Usually it takes around 12 hours to render the product in the highest quality with a bunch of computers rendering at the same time. Guess what windows 10 did? they forced the upgrade and broke avid media composer. Well the company missed the deadline. Two days later we all had macs. Compared to the money the company lost, it was peanuts and we never missed a deadline since.

Yes, it's a shitty habit that Windows 10 had in the beginning. It is now more controllable, fortunately.

Like explained above, the frames of the glasses no matter if they are from Prada or any other brand are really cheap compared to my special glasses (the glasses inside the glasses). I usually wear my glasses until they break and as a rule of thump that is 4-5 years

The "glasses inside the glasses" are called lens