Surface Pro was presented physically at CES. Comments, anyone?

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Being an early adopter always has cost. 'll be watching and waiting too (perhaps for something like the Slate, but with a better price/performance ratio).
Fernando (FMR)

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The reviews aren't looking all that great, unfortunately. Anandtech has it at less than 4 hours for "medium" workload, which for a tablet is unacceptable, IMO. It's also still too heavy, and there aren't enough tablet apps (yet) for Win8 to make usage as a tablet worthwhile. Also, it's apparently really only useful in landscape mode; portrait mode is a bit awkward due to the aspect ratio (something I found as well when I briefly had the Lenovo Yoga).

I think either waiting awhile for the power consumption on these chips to come down, or perhaps getting something like the Thinkpad Tablet 2, which while lower powered is lighter with better life, is the way to go. Either that, or just stick to a laptop.

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Four page review on Ars Technica:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/ ... er-louder/

Not exactly glowing with praise ...

Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...

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ZenPunkHippy wrote:Four page review on Ars Technica:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/ ... er-louder/

Not exactly glowing with praise ...

Peace,
Andy.
Nope. Like I said, I think the idea has merit, I just think we're not there yet in terms of app optimization with touch interfaces, nor are we there yet in terms of power to heat/consumption ratio.

I don't want a tablet for audio that I have to use a stylus, nor do I want a tablet with 4 hours of battery life. Because unlike a laptop, it's not ideal to be tethered to power. Tablets are even more mobile than notebooks, in that they're rarely attached to an outlet.

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This is a new concept. Perhaps the hardware available is still not up to the standards aimed (which are quite high, IMO). We are talking about a hybrid, that works both as a tablet as well as a full laptop. The reviews (perhaps justifiedly) are comparing the Surface Pro with tablets, but of course, due to the CPU it's based on, some specs would have to suffer (like power consumption).
Eventually, customers who adhere to that concept have to accept some tradeoffs, at least for the moment. It's part of the cost early adopters have to pay, in any matter.
But I hope that in a year or so we have better suitable equipments.
Fernando (FMR)

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As many of you may know, I'm typically an Apple/Mac person but I usually keep a PC around for work and apps that only work in Windows...

Anyway, I don't have any experience with the Microsoft Surface but I have been using an Acer Iconia W700 for a little more than a month now and I love it. We even used these things for our demo stations at NAMM. It has Core i3 processor 4gb of Ram and a 64gb SSD drive.

When I first installed Win8 on my laptop, I was like, "groan"... but using Win8 on a multi-touch tablet is great. I'm actually suprised at how well this computer works as a DAW (I'm using Live, Bitwig Studio, Cubase and Reason). I have a 1TB USB3 drive, a FastTrack C-600 and a Nektar Panorama connected and it can handle basic tracking mixing and composition stuff. I can't do big multi-track projects but as a sketch pad or for live performance it's awesome.

I can't comment on battery life because I almost always use it's dock.

The Acer hasn't replaced my iPad at home but it has replaced my work laptop, surprisingly enough.

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fmr wrote:This is a new concept. Perhaps the hardware available is still not up to the standards aimed (which are quite high, IMO). We are talking about a hybrid, that works both as a tablet as well as a full laptop. The reviews (perhaps justifiedly) are comparing the Surface Pro with tablets, but of course, due to the CPU it's based on, some specs would have to suffer (like power consumption).
Eventually, customers who adhere to that concept have to accept some tradeoffs, at least for the moment. It's part of the cost early adopters have to pay, in any matter.
But I hope that in a year or so we have better suitable equipments.
I don't see it as a hybrid at all. A Yoga is a hybrid. A Thinkpad Helix is a hybrid. The Surface Pro is a heavy tablet with crappy battery life, that has an attachable keyboard case, just like that which is available by the truckload for Android and iPads.

it's a tablet, and not a very good one. Better off with a true laptop, or perhaps a Thinkpad Tablet 2.

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at the end of the day is the lack of touch friendly software that's putting me off buying one.
be sure if there was a good touchable version of Reaper i'd buy a surface without even thinking about it twice.
anyway in june the new intel processor comes out...with even lesser power consumption so...might be worth waiting till then.

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Unfortunately there is going to be typical ramp up design tactics on these things, just like on televisions or PCs previously:

Design team - the ipad and android tablet sales are through the roof, want can we do to get back in and take back a share of the market? I know, let's do a standard bigger is better! Lets give them a 20" tablet. Ok now a 27" tablet. Ok now we can do 32" tablet, but battery life is only one hour. How should our commercial look? Should we picture a guy toting the 32" tablet on shoulder like an old boom box?


There gets to be a point, and rather quickly too, where the bigger size and less battery life just sap the desire out of getting one. Tablet computing=EASY right now. Lets keep it that way. Touch laptop is ok. Touch monitor is ok.

Hybrid small form factor is really ok with me. 11.6" laptop where entire screen detaches and is a self contained tablet PC with 8 hours battery life. I would buy that in a heartbeat. Windows 8 full version.

Might think about 14, 15.6, and 17" sizes too for that design.

The large touch screens are going to be great for design, but lets take the portability selling point out of it. CAD on a 27" touch? Might be good.

Music apps on a 27" touch, might be great if a built in desk had that slot to put a surface tablet in like that and use it, but long term use spells neck ache and portability is thrown out the window with battery sucking specs and large form.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

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These arent meant to be cut down devices like the iPad, these are proper computers....with a touch screen.

And I still dont get the groans about Win8 being Ok for touch but rubbish as a desktop OS. For me, its exactly the same as previous OSs with the exception that I now have to shut down the PC using Alt+f4, whereas previously I did it out of choice :?
Last edited by VariKusBrainZ on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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VariKusBrainZ wrote:These arent meant to be cut down devices like the iPad, these are proper computers....with a touch screen
Who was that meant for? I think that's pretty obvious they are full computers.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

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Wormhelmet wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:These arent meant to be cut down devices like the iPad, these are proper computers....with a touch screen
Who was that meant for? I think that's pretty obvious they are full computers.
Referring to battery life comments and lack of apps.
Why use apps when you can use actual windows x86 applications?

But still, anyone who buys a first gen device........a fool is easily parted with his money.

First gen iPhone was shite and there certainly werent millions of apps available, just it was new and looked nice so all the fanboys, sheep and above mentioned fools jumped on it :P

Apple products have the highest number of bullshit apps... how many Cat Pianos does the world need :roll:
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Wormhelmet wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:These arent meant to be cut down devices like the iPad, these are proper computers....with a touch screen
Who was that meant for? I think that's pretty obvious they are full computers.
Referring to battery life comments and lack of apps.
Why use apps when you can use actual windows x86 applications?

But still, anyone who buys a first gen device........a fool is easily parted with his money.

First gen iPhone was shite and there certainly werent millions of apps available, just it was new and looked nice so all the fanboys, sheep and above mentioned fools jumped on it :P

Apple products have the highest number of bullshit apps... how many Cat Pianos does the world need :roll:
I didn't think someone was going to knitpick semantics. I was referring to applications. Another name for a program. Ableton Live is a windows app(lication).

Devs aren't optimizing very quickly for touch on your standard app(lications). Does that make it clearer?

:P

Pretty easy to avoid cat pianos, just don't buy it. How many bullshit programs for windows are there? Far outnumber apple apps.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

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I own both an iPad 2 and a Acer Iconia A500. I love them both. I use Auria on the iPad and it is simply amazing.

That said, I need more memory. I'm simply out of room. Therefore, over the weekend I decided to do something about it. I looked at 64gb Android tablets and 128GB iPads. The costs was about $600 to $900 depending on the model and configuration.

Then I started looking at the Surface Pro. Since I am a programmer and computer repair technician/IT guy, learning Windows 8 is important. The Surface 8 Pro held a high appeal for me since I could use it like a tablet (touch screen) and use Windows programs on it - kind of. Then I saw the actual model at Best Buy.

First impression - NOT impressed. It's heavy, small and even the 128 GB version only has 83gb of useable space - namely, the OS and apps included take over 40GB of space!!!! WTF!!!!!

Then I saw the price - almost $1,000. Then I tried to use it - clunky and SMALL, SMALL, SMALL!!! I could barely see the text on it.

Now, I am a PC guy - I love my PCs, especially my laptop - which has a core i7, 8 core processor with tons of ram and a 22 inch screen - truly a monster of a laptop. It weighs a ton, too. The battery only lasts for 45 minutes due to the overhead it requires. That is why the tablets appeal to me - lots of battery life and a touch screen.

Anyway, I was looking to spend no more than $700 to either get a upgraded Android or a larger capacity iPad (newest model).

Then I saw the touchscreen Windows 8 laptops. I was HOOKED! I bought a Acer Apire|M laptop with a 12-point touchscreen. It's AMAZING! I can use it like a tablet (the hinges go ALL the way back) or like a laptop.

Tablets are great due to their light weight and long battery life. The Surface Pro, however, was quite heavy and a bit bulky for a tablet. My iPad 2 weighs almost nothing and the Acer Iconia, while heavier, is still quite light.

In comparison, my new touch screen laptop weighs as much as the Acer Iconia, but has a 15.6 inch screen and closes to a very thin frame - making it easily carried to and from clients and locations. The battery life on the iPad 2 is about 8 to 9 hours and the Acer Iconia is about the same. The Acer Aspire|M has a 6 hour battery life - putting it pretty close to the other two.

The screen on the iPad 2 and Acer Iconia are gorgeous - the iPad 2 having a slight edge. The screen on the Aspire|M is stunning (and bigger).

To my knowledge, the Acer Iconia and iPad 2 does not have 10 or even 12 touch response, the Aspire|M does.

Lastly, I HATE the keyboard for the Surface Pro - it feels like typing on a tabletop - after a while your fingertips are going to hurt! No thank you. There is almost ZERO touch response and there is a noticeable lag.

However, this all comes down to size and useability. I was looking at the Surface Pro for the ability to run Windows software (and develop it) on the Windows 8 platform. I could have, but with only about 32gb on the 64gb version and 83gb on the 128gb version - and at the $900 to $1000 price point, the Acer|Aspire, with a 500gb hard drive (plus 32gb SSD drive as well) for $649 was a clear winner. I can develop for Windows 8, has a unreal 12-point touchscreen with gorgeous graphics and clarity, a nice light up keyboard and all the ports you would ever need. Its battery life is excellent and form factor is as light as the Surface Pro (perhaps lighter).

When it comes to music apps and creating music, the iPad is an EXCELLENT tone module (with all those great synths) and Auria and Cubasis, as well as other quality DAWs, make the iPad useful in creating music - however, it still does not beat out using Cubase, Sonar, Studio One Pro or any other Pro DAW on a Windows machine.

The Android simply is not yet capable of serious music making except for Caustic - and even that, while being an excellent app, just doesn't make the cut.

On the Aspire|M, with as much battery life, more hard drive space, more memory (6gb), better and larger touch screen, awesome keyboard, great I/O (and you can attach hard drives, thumb sticks, etc), full card reader (SD, MMC, etc) and cheaper price point make it the clear winner.

I have already used Presonus Studio One Pro on it and mixing on the full-size faders with my fingers is sheer joy. Likewise, playing around with synths like Alchemy and my own SuperCore v2 is just too much fun using the touch screen.

There seems to be no lag with the audio on the Aspire|M and any ASIO hardware, like my Presonus Audiobox USB turns it into a Pro music machine that is completely portable (just need a battery pack for the Presonus - unless there is a USB ASIO card that gets its power from the USB port - and has at least two inputs and outputs - any come to mind?

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

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VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Wormhelmet wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:These arent meant to be cut down devices like the iPad, these are proper computers....with a touch screen
Who was that meant for? I think that's pretty obvious they are full computers.
Referring to battery life comments and lack of apps.
Why use apps when you can use actual windows x86 applications?

But still, anyone who buys a first gen device........a fool is easily parted with his money.

First gen iPhone was shite and there certainly werent millions of apps available, just it was new and looked nice so all the fanboys, sheep and above mentioned fools jumped on it :P

Apple products have the highest number of bullshit apps... how many Cat Pianos does the world need :roll:
If there are no good touch enabled apps and shite battery life, why buy a tablet at all then? Tablets are designed to be carried around, not tethered to a AC cable. Just get a good laptop. There are plenty of lightweight Windows 8 notebooks that are fantastic.

Apple does have a high number of bullshit apps, but they also have a ton of great ones too. Cubasis, Auria, Animoog, the Korg apps, etc. All very useful.

If Steinberg were to simply take their Cubasis for iOS UI and make it a view option in the x86 version of Cubase for Windows 8, it would be a smoking Windows 8 tablet application. It'll likely happen eventually.

It's not that Windows 8 on a tablet is a bad idea; it's not. It's just that the Surface Pro in particular isn't a very good example. I think the Thinkpad Tablet 2 will be a better balance, given it's far lighter weight and better battery life.

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