XFer's Serum for iOS?

[risome]

Ask Steve

[fmr]

I'm convinced that Xfer could certainly build a version on Serum that runs on an iPad Air or greater with a reduced capability set/polyphony limit - completely doable.

So, you're defending that Xfer should invest their time developing a limited version of their synthesizer, that could even pass thr wong idea of what Serum is capable of, to seel it to you for $20?

The simple fact is that some of the software that currently runs on my Apple Air is already pretty damn powerful and sounds fantastic - please take a good look at some of the Virsyn ios stuff (as mentioned) - Tera, Poseidon, & Addictive Pro are good examples - all (3) are more then capable of useful synthesis; the limit being what the user wants to invest in the periphery that puts it into - maybe what we could call: 'pro' space - where it's taken out and used in a live/studio situation on a regular basis.

These are good examples of what this iOS mess can bring. These old synths (Tera and Poseidon) ands still being sold by $169 for Mac and Windows, yet, the iOS versions costs $20. What kind of justification does Virsyn have for:
1. Having totally abandoned the developemtn of these synths.?
2. Styill selling them so pricey, when the iOS versions are being sold for peanuts?

This is what really piss customers, and what somehow dismisses iPad. The fact that really old and now abandonware in Mac/Windows is still considered the "non plus ultra" in iPad, and people seems willing to accept that crippled versions with reduced capabilities running in a crippled device with a crippled OS sould be the next trend.

Definitely another current favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_zaXvuFKQ

This soft is done in both desktop and portable form, and it's designed to share patches between both.

As an aside: I've already had some conversation with the devs - really nice people; they seemed to like one of my suggestions quite a bit; so I'm hopeful that we'll see the suggested feature implemented in the next version.

I tried this, and frankly, didn't like the sound... At all. The fact you consider it one of your favorites, means that you privilege the platform over the quality of the software or the results. Nuff said.

[BertKoor]

There is enough iOS made high quality music around the world. It´s not about the tools, it´s about the user and likings of listeners.

Show me where... So far, I never saw a single piece of music that was claimed to be done on iPad. But I accept there could be some.

You didn't see that Jordan Rudess video of him playing GeoShred in the snow?
viewtopic.php?p=6652211

[fmr]

There is enough iOS made high quality music around the world. It´s not about the tools, it´s about the user and likings of listeners.

Show me where... So far, I never saw a single piece of music that was claimed to be done on iPad. But I accept there could be some.

You didn't see that Jordan Rudess video of him playing GeoShred in the snow?
viewtopic.php?p=6652211

Ah yes, I saw that video Well, he did it for fun, and because he was asked (paid?) to show GeoShred. But yes, I think this qualifies as a piece of music

[Cinebient]

I'm convinced that Xfer could certainly build a version on Serum that runs on an iPad Air or greater with a reduced capability set/polyphony limit - completely doable.

So, you're defending that Xfer should invest their time developing a limited version of their synthesizer, that could even pass thr wong idea of what Serum is capable of, to seel it to you for $20?

The simple fact is that some of the software that currently runs on my Apple Air is already pretty damn powerful and sounds fantastic - please take a good look at some of the Virsyn ios stuff (as mentioned) - Tera, Poseidon, & Addictive Pro are good examples - all (3) are more then capable of useful synthesis; the limit being what the user wants to invest in the periphery that puts it into - maybe what we could call: 'pro' space - where it's taken out and used in a live/studio situation on a regular basis.

These are good examples of what this iOS mess can bring. These old synths (Tera and Poseidon) ands still being sold by $169 for Mac and Windows, yet, the iOS versions costs $20. What kind of justification does Virsyn have for:
1. Having totally abandoned the developemtn of these synths.?
2. Styill selling them so pricey, when the iOS versions are being sold for peanuts?

This is what really piss customers, and what somehow dismisses iPad. The fact that really old and now abandonware in Mac/Windows is still considered the "non plus ultra" in iPad, and people seems willing to accept that crippled versions with reduced capabilities running in a crippled device with a crippled OS sould be the next trend.

Definitely another current favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_zaXvuFKQ

This soft is done in both desktop and portable form, and it's designed to share patches between both.

As an aside: I've already had some conversation with the devs - really nice people; they seemed to like one of my suggestions quite a bit; so I'm hopeful that we'll see the suggested feature implemented in the next version.

I tried this, and frankly, didn't like the sound... At all. The fact you consider it one of your favorites, means that you privilege the platform over the quality of the software or the results. Nuff said.

Nah´it´s all a personal thing. Why bother with it, if it make you angry?
Accept that people (like me too) which use both kind of tools think different (no, i´m not an Apple fanboy) here.
The Virsyn iOS apps are indeed better than the old desktop stuff. I mean especially the GUI. It´s not ALWAYS just about the sound.
Use whatever make you happy.
I wish you fun and all the best with it. But iOS is and will be a part of the new music production world. And it will grow........
It will never replace the desktop tools and vice versa!!!!! There are things on iOS i simply can´t freaking do with any desktop tools!
Nave f.e. is better on iOS since it is also a great midi controller there (like most iOS synth apps, Sunrizer too. The next Beepstreet synth seems iOS only. There is no Moog software synth in the desktop world.
But we had that already and i´m off topic now again
Serum for iOS? Maybe not. But a "real" multi touch tool from Xfer, why not? Because windows 10 is crap for these tools!

[fmr]

Serum for iOS? Maybe not. But a "real" multi touch tool from Xfer, why not? Because windows 10 is crap for these tools!

Yeah, that could be fun for iOS users. A touch controller for Serum. That could be an added value to carry more sales for Serum.

I know that you know it pisses me off when people start complaining why this and that doesn't exist for iOS, as if the world suddenly had to migrate over But I'll leave it at that

[bungle]

Suggesting Virsyn as the ultra + of IOS shows how little knowledge of IOS exists here.
The current new trend is not old out of date desktop software being lauded as ultra+ on IOS, it is actually IOS software being ported to the desktop.
Gadget arriving for mac (not a purchase for me personally because i think it is expensive on IOS and mac, similar prices by the way)
Poison 202 which along with Serum is one of my main software instruments and will soon be VST/AU.
And a bunch of other developers hinitong at desktop support.

Reality here is that in terms of inter-app interaction, IOS is light years ahead of anything on the desktop, something we ignore because we expect all features to be built in to our DAWs, in IOS everything connects to everything else.

If you dont like IOS just move along, nobody cares, check the Serum forum, its never happening for IOS, he has been quite clear about it.

[Cinebient]

Serum for iOS? Maybe not. But a "real" multi touch tool from Xfer, why not? Because windows 10 is crap for these tools!

Yeah, that could be fun for iOS users. A touch controller for Serum. That could be an added value to carry more sales for Serum.

I know that you know it pisses me off when people start complaining why this and that doesn't exist for iOS, as if the world suddenly had to migrate over But I'll leave it at that

No problem. You have all the right to feel so! ....even if i don´t agree
We are just humans!
The thing is really that i had bought some more desktop tools if they would offer me a native app to control and edit things. The power of multi-touch control combined with a more powerful environment.
But iOS needs Cthulhu as MIDI app in Audiobus 3 now (which i find f.e. more flexible and faster to set up than my Logic/notebook/desktop) set-up for midi routing and stuff.
But i often change my mind.....

[goldenanalog]

So, you're defending that Xfer should invest their time developing a limited version of their synthesizer, that could even pass thr wong idea of what Serum is capable of, to seel it to you for $20?

Defending that Xfer should invest their time?

As soon as I read that (which was not what I said) - that was enough - I deleted my post.

[Cinebient]

Suggesting Virsyn as the ultra + of IOS shows how little knowledge of IOS exists here.
The current new trend is not old out of date desktop software being lauded as ultra+ on IOS, it is actually IOS software being ported to the desktop.
Gadget arriving for mac (not a purchase for me personally because i think it is expensive on IOS and mac, similar prices by the way)
Poison 202 which along with Serum is one of my main software instruments and will soon be VST/AU.
And a bunch of other developers hinitong at desktop support.

Reality here is that in terms of inter-app interaction, IOS is light years ahead of anything on the desktop, something we ignore because we expect all features to be built in to our DAWs, in IOS everything connects to everything else.

If you dont like IOS just move along, nobody cares, check the Serum forum, its never happening for IOS, he has been quite clear about it.

I agree. While i find using multiple apps at the same time is often still very unstable and it´s not always a great experience, all the workarounds because of the limits have evolved into a modular like system where every app can put out midi and audio to another app.
You can connect 3, 4, 5 or more DAW´s in a few seconds and control it via another app.
BUT.....you really don´t need that all in desktop land because if you work with a big DAW and plug-ins you have everything included.
If i want to create a track with a lot of different tools i´m a lot faster on my notebook.
Fine tuning, editing is terrible on a touch screen (for me) as well.
They share some things but working totally different.
Combining iOS with a desktop workflow is still the best thing where i can use the best of both worlds.
I still like to use more self-contained apps inside iOS (i´m waiting so bad for BeatMaker 3 and NanoStudio 2) where i don´t have to connect several tools and have to be scared that one will break the show.
Indeed, Poison VST/AU is released...but mac only.

[themagicalkamja]

So, stop asking silly questions like "Are there plans for an iOS version of Serum"? I don't know if there are any, but if the author has enough time to waste, maybe it's better for him to spend it coding something else that he could sell for the same price as Serum, or keep developing it, instead of creating a crippled version to be sold in Apple Store for peanuts, and having to pay 30% to Apple.

Any developer that follows that path simply shows that he has no respect for his users, and therefore loses my respect too.

So the takeaway from your rant is that a synthesizer is only good if it's expensive? Not b/c of the sound quality or usability? You need to rethink your priorities lol.

[fmr]

So, stop asking silly questions like "Are there plans for an iOS version of Serum"? I don't know if there are any, but if the author has enough time to waste, maybe it's better for him to spend it coding something else that he could sell for the same price as Serum, or keep developing it, instead of creating a crippled version to be sold in Apple Store for peanuts, and having to pay 30% to Apple.

Any developer that follows that path simply shows that he has no respect for his users, and therefore loses my respect too.

So the takeaway from your rant is that a synthesizer is only good if it's expensive? Not b/c of the sound quality or usability? You need to rethink your priorities lol.

Did I wrote that? Read again: "Any developer that follows that path simply shows that he has no respect for his users, and therefore loses my respect too". I'll translate, since you seem to think shortly.

It means that, if a developer can sell the same product for 1/10 of the value and still pay 30% to Apple, he is either (1) losing money just for the sake of be in iPad (which, in the long term, may hurt ALL the users), or (2) he was asking too much to their first customers, the ones that bought his product full price previously.

Either way, that developer, IMO, is someone who doesn't deserve my respect and confidence.

Look what Korg did with Gadget, for example. They had a product being sold which was no longer being developed for quite some time. Then they came with another product for iPad, priced much lower. Now, they ported the very same product from iPad to Mac OS and asked like $40 (currently it's veven being sold for $20). Yet, the same product for Mac OS is being sold at the "special launching price" of $200 (it's like 10 times more expensive), and they plan to sell it after launching for $400 (ten times the regular price of the same product for iOS). What's worse: Some of the instruments in there (among the most important?) are even the same instruments that they had already sold before in KLC, but limited and with another GUI.

Million dollar question is: Why did they dare to charge ten times the price for the same product?

It's all these things that make me think something is wrong somewhere, and really piss me off.

So, either you are willing to pay $190 for Serum iOS (I would like to see that), or you think that the iOS version would be sold by $30 or something, in which case the question would be why, and that fact would be insulting for the people who already bought it for Mac OS or Windows, leading customers to question Steve/Xfer why he didn't price it accordingly for Mac/Windows in the first place.

Is it clear now?

[Cinebient]

So, stop asking silly questions like "Are there plans for an iOS version of Serum"? I don't know if there are any, but if the author has enough time to waste, maybe it's better for him to spend it coding something else that he could sell for the same price as Serum, or keep developing it, instead of creating a crippled version to be sold in Apple Store for peanuts, and having to pay 30% to Apple.

Any developer that follows that path simply shows that he has no respect for his users, and therefore loses my respect too.

So the takeaway from your rant is that a synthesizer is only good if it's expensive? Not b/c of the sound quality or usability? You need to rethink your priorities lol.

Did I wrote that? Read again: "Any developer that follows that path simply shows that he has no respect for his users, and therefore loses my respect too". I'll translate, since you seem to think shortly.

It means that, if a developer can sell the same product for 1/10 of the value and still pay 30% to Apple, he is either (1) losing money just for the sake of be in iPad (which, in the long term, may hurt ALL the users), or (2) he was asking too much to their first customers, the ones that bought his product full price previously.

Either way, that developer, IMO, is someone who doesn't deserve my respect and confidence.

Look what Korg did with Gadget, for example. They had a product being sold which was no longer being developed for quite some time. Then they came with another product for iPad, priced much lower. Now, they ported the very same product from iPad to Mac OS and asked like $40 (currently it's veven being sold for $20). Yet, the same product for Mac OS is being sold at the "special launching price" of $200 (it's like 10 times more expensive), and they plan to sell it after launching for $400 (ten times the regular price of the same product for iOS). What's worse: Some of the instruments in there (among the most important?) are even the same instruments that they had already sold before in KLC, but limited and with another GUI.

Million dollar question is: Why did they dare to charge ten times the price for the same product?

It's all these things that make me think something is wrong somewhere, and really piss me off.

So, either you are willing to pay $190 for Serum iOS (I would like to see that), or you think that the iOS version would be sold by $30 or something, in which case the question would be why, and that fact would be insulting for the people who already bought it for Mac OS or Windows, leading customers to question Steve/Xfer why he didn't price it accordingly for Mac/Windows in the first place.

Is it clear now?

Sorry, but this is not true!
The mac version of Gadget has all Gadgets´s included (31) while you get just about 50% of them included with the iOS version. If you count all the in app purchases you need to get them all for the iOS version, it´s the same price (maybe even more). And it has more options there too, f.e. all Gadget´s as VST/AU/AAX and NKS on mac. Indeed, the regular price would be 299 not 400!
Another thing is that some developers seems to think for some reason that the ARM platform is more powerful for new synths.
I saw this conversation on the Beepstreet (Sunrizer, Dagger) facebook site:
A user asked:
"Great... I'm looking forward to this new synth. I love Dagger and Sunrizer. Are there any plans on a vst version for the new one?
1 · 8. März um 07:39
BeepStreet answered:
"Who knows.. I started from iOS because this synth is very CPU demanding and ARM is very powerful."
Not the first time i heard this. I´m no developer and it sounds strange to me but what do i know.

[fmr]

Sorry, but this is not true!
The mac version of Gadget has all Gadgets´s included (31) while you get just about 50% of them included with the iOS version. If you count all the in app purchases you need to get them all for the iOS version, it´s the same price (maybe even more). And it has more options there too, f.e. all Gadget´s as VST/AU/AAX and NKS on mac. Indeed, the regular price would be 299 not 400!

I have to take your word on this, although I don't believe they all cost the same (but I will not enter in this discussion again). Anyway, there is a prize you are asked to pay, unjustifiedly, and this is usually what happenes with any instrument being sold for OS X/Windows and iPad. In this case, it's $100, but nevertheless. Regarding the formats, ANY instrument developed has to support at least VST and AU. I am no developer, but I hardly believe that will add so much more to the equation, unless the developer choosed some close environment for delopment (like it happened with Pulsar developer, it seems).

Another thing is that some developers seems to think for some reason that the ARM platform is more powerful for new synths.
I saw this conversation on the Beepstreet (Sunrizer, Dagger) facebook site:
A user asked:
"Great... I'm looking forward to this new synth. I love Dagger and Sunrizer. Are there any plans on a vst version for the new one?
1 · 8. März um 07:39
BeepStreet answered:
"Who knows.. I started from iOS because this synth is very CPU demanding and ARM is very powerful."
Not the first time i heard this. I´m no developer and it sounds strange to me but what do i know.

I strongly doubt, otherwise, ARM processors would have been already in use, at least for laptops. But I saw that Sunrizer is already available for Mac. Therefore, It's easy to test: download it and compare. You can do it, since you have both platforms. I'll wait for your results and diagnose.

[goldenanalog]