Feature requests

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RapidComposer

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Hmmm..... last posts were 4 months ago. It's mind boggling to me as to why people are not showing more interest in this. For an app that was only just released in April of 2010, this is really coming along. I think it shows the most promise.

For anyone complaining about the price, just look at what Cognitone is charging for Rapid Composer's ONLY competitor, Synfire. Rapid and Synfire are the only fully featured music prototyping apps I know of, and I don't think you could even launch Synfire as a plug-in. It's more of a DAW with a really tough learning curve. I happen to like the DAWs I currently know and use.

For me, the only thing that's been missing over the years in modern DAWs are the four "Chord Tracks" I start out composing with on the early QY series Yamaha hardware sequencers in the early 90s. Those had four "chord tracks" that fallowed a chosen (or homegrown) "pattern", and my entered chord progression ideas according to the melody ideas bouncing around in my brain, he he he. Those 4 tracks were; Bass, Drums, Chord Trk 1, and Chord Trk 2. If I did'nt like the cheesy stock "patterns", I made my own.

There were also 4 Sequencer tracks like modern DAWs that did not fallow the entered chord progressins of my song. I usually used those tracks for string scores. It was very easy to audition compleplex chords in the current progression in real time. (I don't know if Rapid already does this in real time, maybe it does as I've never been far enough along into a composition to try it).

I think RapidComposer, as a plug-in, is the closest thing I've found to bringing that kind of functionality into any existing, modern day Daw. The problem is, a lot of people may be a little intimidated by it because it doesn't get you going there fast enough and they may be worried about investing time into it's learning curve. I've struggled a little with it myself, but because I know this is some serious software, I'm hanging in there. I like that It's not an embarrassing app like say, band in a box, (which I personally wouldn't be caught dead using).

So it dawned on me today as to why people may be shying away from Rapid. Maybe if It had two modes like say; "Expert" and "Simple". Expert is what it currently defaults to now and that's fine with me because I'm going to want all those features but if someone a little less savvy trying the demo wanted to open a new project in say,"simple mode", they would then see , or be given a templet consisting of 4 basic General midi tracks (like the QY series hardware I mentioned); Chord Trk1, Chord Trk2, Bass (that always fallows the low part of a phrase (C/G... Am....), and drums on channel 10.

A "simple mode" could also get just about anyone going right away. They could replace the stock soundfonts at any time with VST soft synths (as Rapid does now), and enter into "expert" mode at any point to access more features.

If that's asking a bit too much, then maybe you could just add some templet choices in the "create new composition area that give those 4 basic "chord tracks" so that it gets us there quicker in our DAW when starting a new composition in the DAW? What do you guys and gals think? I think this would bring RapidComposer's appeal to the masses.

Another cool feature request, sense the plugin's timeline fallows the DAW's timeline, would be to add a nice little skinny, one line, lyric track to the timeline of each displayed song part, verse, bridge, chorus.... that displays evolving lyrical ideas that can be typed in or edited on the fly at any time. Just a simple horizontal, and on going text area to jot down lyric ideas that line up with the timeline during the creative process. For me, that happens at the same time the song is being composed. Then if you're at a point were you're dragging midi files permanently to your host, you could also save the lyrics to a folder in simple text to archive if needed.

What if Bass Generator was renamed Bass/Midi Note Generator?.… After all, it's very versatile and works good on drums and other song parts as well.

I don't really care for the symbols for Note Browser, Chord Browser, Chord Progression Browser, Phrase Browser, and the Variations Browser. Could there be an option to have printed words on those buttons rather then those confusing symbols? Reaper defaults the same way. I had to changed the skin to one with printed words to fix it to my taste and it really helped, for me at least.

Don't want to nitpick. I'm sure I've got plenty to learn about RapidComposer so feel free to school me in my ignorance, I can take it. Love the new Mac VST plugin and don't you ever diss us Mac users again. he he he

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I've messed around with RapidComposer in demo mode a few times and I think the concept in general has potential but I've not been able to really get started to do anything useful with RapidComposer because somehow the work flow approach evades me. So for me I can't justify spending any money on it. And even if I could get it working, I don't know if I would spend the amount he is asking for it, It would have to give some pretty impressive results, but I have not really been able to experience any success with my limited demo adventures...so its hard to justify the cost. But I love the notion that these kinds of tools are being attempted.

There was a product I bought years ago that won't run on modern windoz, called Microworks Camps, and it was the first attempt I really saw at trying to write a program that lets you mess with chords and scales. I never did much with it because they didn't keep it up to date long enough for me to figure out how it works and use it. Then those Russian guys at Ntonyx tried to do some stuff like this, again, overly complicated and most people couldn't embrace it.

The Cognitone stuff looks very interesting to me, but I can't even close to justify the price, no matter how good it is.

So yes, RapidComposer looks promising, but still...somehow the workflow methods for how to accomplish anything with it seem to evade me when using the demo....so....i can't really justify spending money on it...and as I said...the price he is asking is a little on the high side for most people, especially when its hard to "get it"

BIAB should not be discounted so heavily, its actually very close in results to what you were doing with your QY. But WAY too complicated to use also. The beauty of the QY was its simplicity

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That's a nice read dewdman. Yeah the QY was cool in it's day but I do remember having to scroll through multiple menus just to get things done.

I think if RapidComposer could just have some kind of start up mode that put it into an invironment that's intuitive, yet still a tad more advanced then say, Toontracks EZ keys, then while it's in this mode, Rapid would then be completely awesome software for the masses indeed because you would either have two workflows, or a quick start up templet to appeal to many more different kinds of users. When I consider how many more things Rapid it's capable of doing compared to EZ keys, then this just makes more sense because when you think of it, EZ keys is having pretty good success right now, yet for me, EZ Keys just keeps me wanting more features, for example, that one instrument per instence thing it has for piano or rhodes, just seems limited to me. If you muted the piano to try and drive a softsynth, the piano would still be in RAM for as long as it's launched so trying to push a softsynth with it would be consuming RAM and CPU. Boo on that considering it cost like 179 bucks street. I also wouldn't get the cool 16 tracks per instence Rapid is capable of.

Dig this. Last night I launched Reaper, created a virtual instrument track, pulled up Rapid in it, ctrl click (or windoz right click?) the left side of the plugin window for that track, clicked create 16 tracks and blam, there it was... 16 tracks that all said "RapidComposer" in them, on 16 seperate midi channals. How cool is that!

Yeah BIAB is very simular to the old QYs but it doesn't support softsynth VSTs or AU plugins, or nice samplers from say, NI...., It just supports their own sounds which are alright but that proprietary thing drives me nuts. It doesn't even support rewire so it seems to be pitched more to novice songwriters. Just not my cup of tea but I guess it does have it's market.

I tip my hat to what musicdevelopments has accomplished with Rapid thus far. I know little things like vertical resizing, workflow and on and on.... will all get worked out. These things take time. I understand that. It's just a matter of getting the word out because the best software comes from consensus gathered from feature requests. Just look at how Reaper developed into the great DAW it is today.

Get the word out!

Cheers.

edit; changed apple/command click....oops, I ment ctrl click on mac
Last edited by funkystrings on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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You can use VST instruments in BIAB now, actually for 2 or 3 years now. I use Sampletank or Sonic Synth all the time, and just assign different instruments to different channels. It's a breeze.
Ilk

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I. Lehti wrote:You can use VST instruments in BIAB now, actually for 2 or 3 years now. I use Sampletank or Sonic Synth all the time, and just assign different instruments to different channels. It's a breeze.
Oh,I did'nt know that... I'll have to check into that. Still no rewire though? not that rewire is such a big deal...

So the plugs you use in BIAB.... I guess you could just start a composition in BIAB, save it as midi file , and then open that file in a host, add all the same plugins and just take from there?

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Band in a Box seems to not be "in the box". It's too proprietary. My compositions begin in the host of my choice, with the softsynths, and samplers of my choice.

I will now attempt the amazing magic trick of getting this thread back on topic he he he

Could rapidComposer be given the ability to record a simple phrase, into the phrase editor in real-time while utilizing the metronome within It? So that it recognizes the current tempo in my host?

It recorded my controller's input velocity nicely, and it even seemed to capture the groove, but I wasn't able to start it's metronome (in stand alone at least), in the phrase editor window so I was forced to just kinda imagine the groove tempo in my head while recording with no ability to add a click.

I guess I could just loop a pre created or factory loop from my Addictive Drums, at the same time I'm recording a phrase in Rapid, and they would then play back to the host's tempo with the right feel, but many times, I'm going to want to record something I'm hearing in my head and get it down quickly with the same groove and feel into the phrase editor from the very start of a songs conception.

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You are right, recording in the phrase editor should be improved by adding a tempo setting and metronome. RC can detect the the tempo (select recorded notes, right click and choose 'Detect And Adjust Interval') and even automatically align the notes to beats ('Align To Beats' in the same menu).

Thanks,
Attila

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Oh wow, I didn't know those options were available, and even if I did, I probably wouldn't have known "Detect And Adjust Interval" was related to tempo. What if you renamed it "Detect tempo And adjust"?

For bone heads like me, you could add a drop down in the Phrase Editor that says "recorded Notes" above it, and rename the items within it to; "Align Selected To Beats" and, "Detect Tempo Of Selected And Adjust". Keep all the rest of the items the way you have them now.

Yeah, Metronome in the Phrase Editor for sure!

Question; Why are those menus, that don't drop down (over to the right of the Phrase editor), all grayed out like that? Are those only grayed out on the current Mac edition?

I was thinking that an easier way to implement one of my previous suggestions for newbies, would be to add an option (with a preloaded template), right below "Create New Composition" that says; "Create New With Pad, Bass & Drums". It would have those three soundfonts and tracks loaded and ready to go. This would get them up and running faster. I would also use it to simply replace the soundfonts with my VSTi's. Use a Pad because they sustain well, and they're helpful to get chord progression ideas down quick. If you disagree, just use a sustained piano instead. Have the Bass use a straight pedaling phrase and people could just enter their desired key and go. Let it be part of the quick start. When they get more savvy, they could replace the sustained pad (or piano) phrase, the pedal bass phrase and the basic drum phrases with phrases that better suit their song and add new tracks down the line as well.

And of course a "Lyric jot" would be nice on a separate track, or up near the timeline, with the ability to save to text or word doc in an RC folder. That may have to wait as you've probably got a lot on your plate right now.

Happy 4th,
Funkystrings

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Thanks for all the great suggestions!
I have fixed the menu label to make it clear.
Composition templates will appear probably in the next update.

Thanks!
Attila

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Just wanted to mention that MusicDevelopments implemented the following in recent builds (this is from a similar thread, but more have been mentioned and added since that posting):

- new "Melody Generator" phrase generator (very useful and powerful)
- custom phrase save folder location setting (all custom phrases save as separate files, easily backed up)
- snap to and grid now have Bar option
- number keys select lines in the Structure composer (and RC automatically creates a looped time selection as you work in that particular line. The number 0 shows the entire composition.
- same as above, CTRL+number selects "Parts" (formerly called "Verses")
- "Verse" (in Structure Inspector) renamed to "Part" and "Divide" (composition view/phrases) named to the more common "Split."
- Backslash key (\) splits phrase at desired location (no longer is a "Generator", of course)
- Insert key inserts beat at desired location
- CTRL+Insert inserts bar at desired location
- Piano soundfont is default sound for chord selection/preview (Pad Soundfont took too long to decay when auditioning chords)
- "L" key is new shortcut for "Generate & Apply" in the Phrase Inspector window (see RapidComposer Tutorial Part 5 on YouTube)
- RC's timebase defaults to Measures:Beats:Hundredths, and the Structure Inspector also defaults to Measures:Beats (easier to know where you are).
- Default Snap to setting is "Beat", not eighth or 16th note.
- Structure Inspector automatically numbers each Part as one is added, and Lines are now tied to the parts they come from (also auto-numbered).

new stuff not mentioned previously):

- new "Thirds Run Generator", which generates piano runs in thirds, similar to the bridge in The Beatles classic "Let It Be" (you can customize the rhythm of the runs)
- Phrase Transpose option now includes "Octave", in addition to "Phrase" and "Notes"
- MIDI Import has been tweaked a bit
- New Soundfonts included in the installer, including a steel-string acoustic guitar sound, a clarinet (useful for Melody Generator), and "Chiptunes", a 9-preset soundfont bank that has lots of great 8-bit synth sounds.
- new keyboard shortcuts for inserting Generators or Generator Ghosts (B,H,M,N,Q - or shift plus those for Ghost copies).
- F key is now a shortcut for "Fill track with Selected Generator", very usweful.
- and finally, we now have a metronome in the Phrase Editor, along with a Tempo section, and the ability to Tap Tempo. There is no count-in, but the Phrase you record begins when you press keys on your MIDI keyboard... so you have about 3 seconds of metronome playback before it "times out" and says "no phrase recorded"... plenty of time to get ready.


For the record -- all of these were feature requests (by me, and other users) that have been implemented by the developer.
Last edited by themixtape on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hmm...I'm missing something in this list. But we'll see when the new version is out.

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What are you missing? He implemented your split phrase request, with a keyboard shortcut... what else did you need?

I think these are fantastic, incredibly useful additions.

The amount of work Attila and I have put in in the last 2 months alone is insane...

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Is it too silly of me to ask what the difference is between a Phrase Generator and a Melody Generator?

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No question is silly.
'Phrase Generator' is a generic term. Phrase generators create a musical phrase based on some mathematical algorithm. There are specialized phrase generators for different purposes, e.g. Fingerpicking Generator to make guitar fingerpicking patterns, or Bass Generator to create bass patterns.

The 'Melody Generator' is a special 'Phrase Generator' that contains all the rules for making nice melodies. The rules come from music theory, but we spent a lot of time with Chris to fine tune them. You can change the rules, so it is quite flexible.

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Yes, in the new videos the Melody Generator looks very interesting. Look forward to trying out the new release!

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