MusicDevelopments

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:26 am

Ah ! While I was writing my post you've published a new one. I'm gonna read it.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:41 am

dsan@mail.com wrote:I see, I have better understanding now.

Perhaps these pictures will help clear your concerns. They show the selection method in RC from the Track Inspector view.

The first is the rc.INST Instrument Selection screen and the second is the Patch change screen (Indicated as "Preset" on the Track Inspector panel) after having selected a RP BLue patch list.
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HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

... the problem being that with OBXD (and other VSTIs) I get that:

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:52 am

With Native Instruments FM8 (for which I have more than 2000 presets) I get that (which is still different):

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:56 am

With Cakewalk Z3TA+2 (with about 1500 presets)... I get that:

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:01 am

With Sampletank 2.5 (for which I have more than 2500 presets) I get that:

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:06 am

And finally one which gives me generously its patches :
Nusofting Modelonia (about 1000 patches)
(in fact very very very few VSTIs give me correctly their patches in RapidComposer... but absolutely all in the other composing or hosting tools... that's why I have put this question which is the subject of the thread).

With Nusofting Modelonia:

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:14 am

So of course there is a very big problem in the management of the patches by RapidComposer, because I have never encountered any of all these different behaviors with my other tools used as DAWs (Mulab or Realband for example, or Reaper that I've just installed few hours ago for the first step of these tests), nor as simple hosts (SaviHost or Cantabile for example), nor as composition tools (BIAB or Sibelius 7 for example).

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:21 am

From your posts it seems RC is not reading the patches in the instrument (except for the last, Nuesofting Modelonia).

From what I can tell the others are where you will want to use the Custom rc.INST method. You should create the custom files as indicated.

Then I think you will have what you are wanting - a list of the patches from the VST to select from.

Is this correct?

In the case of Z3TA+2, you will need to use bank select method to be able to access all programs. I assume this is true for the others as well but because I do not own them I am unfamiliar.

Persevere BlackWinny. You will get there. RC does have VST program management capabilities. Perhaps not as elegant as some other software but it will give you what you seek. It is just a matter of understanding the methodology RC uses. It is different than BIAB and Realband (actaully I like the way RC does it more so than BIAB or RB). Consider, VST program management in each of the tools you mention happens differently also.

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:57 am

I really have to look into this issue. This bothered me for a while but there are only two ways to read presets from a VST plug-in and I found most plug-ins do not expose their presets through the VST interface:
- effGetProgramNameIndexed/effGetProgramName
- if the effect can do "midiProgramNames", effGetMidiProgramName/effGetMidiProgramCategory can be used to request a preset

(RapidComposer does not handle .fxb/.fxp presets but using these are not very common in modern plug-ins)
If other DAWs are able to access all the presets of these plug-ins, then there must a way to read the presets other than what I know of. I will check this shortly.

Thanks,
Attila

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:24 pm

Hello Attila !

For the internal code of course I won't be able to help you, but I can make you a little list of freeware products (rather than payware products) categorized according their behavior as shown in my four or five posts above, so with which you'll be able to freely make tests (and us too) without having to install payware monsters.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:51 pm

Yes, yes, Dennis, I'm someone who never throws in the towel.

While Attila is gonna work to find the solution, I'll use the method you've suggested with an analysis in depth of the actual .inst files and the creation of limited panel of internal patches, knowing that for each synth it will need for each patch hours to recreate what is already existing and without warranty of truth, exact copy. And for sounds which are made by modeling synthesis (I use a lot Modelonia and some other modeling tools to recreate the sound (sometimes a bit modernized but always in a traditional fragrance) of some asian instruments) or by FM (which needs very very accurate tunings with very narrow tolerances outside of which the sound becomes totally different) it's a mess...

But I'm persevering. I never drop. The best lives are made of challenges.

(hmmm... I guess also that probably the actual management of the VSTS in RC can be a brake for potential purchasers)

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:37 pm

BlackWinny wrote:Hello Attila !

For the internal code of course I won't be able to help you, but I can make you a little list of freeware products (rather than payware products) categorized according their behavior as shown in my four or five posts above, so with which you'll be able to freely make tests (and us too) without having to install payware monsters.

Here's one to notice. Perhaps it will be possible to incorporate Zen into RC somehow:
http://www.bigtickaudio.com/zen/about-zen

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:09 pm

BlackWinny wrote:Hello Attila !

For the internal code of course I won't be able to help you, but I can make you a little list of freeware products (rather than payware products) categorized according their behavior as shown in my four or five posts above, so with which you'll be able to freely make tests (and us too) without having to install payware monsters.

Hi BlackWinny,
I checked a small number of plug-ins and I found that RC recognizes the same number of presets as Reaper, so there is no serious shortcoming in RC:

IL Harmor demo: 1 patch (Default) in Reaper and RapidComposer
SampleTank Free (10 day period expired) but 1 patch in both
z3ta+ v1.5: 768 patches in both Reaper and RapidComposer
zebra2 demo v2.5.2: 1 patch (initialize) in Reaper and RapidComposer

Now I see that handling VST banks and presets will have to be implemented.
I will definitely try freeware plug-ins from your list. We should find one plug-in that exposes its presets in a DAW (I use Reaper the most) but not in RC.

Thanks,
Attila

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:38 pm

Yes, Zen is a tool to organize one's patches. Just by declaring the VSTI installed it goes to its online database and download all the patches/banks that it knows for the VSTI declared, then it shows a huge list of patches which can be organized as wanted. Then just by a double-clic on a patch, it launches the VST so it is ready to use the patch loaded in memory.

Zen can also be used itself as a VSTI, so it opens a huge world because in this way it becomes a very practical interface fully automatized between the DAW and the collection of patches/banks/VSTIs. Here is an example of Zen showing a part of the category "Piano" coming from my installed VSTIs (here I have restricted the results to FM8 by choosing Piano in the first column but also FM8 in the second column):

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:39 pm

But in RC... here is the result:

MusicDevelopments

KVR Audio

I need a little help for the banks of a VST in RapidComposer