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NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:02 pm NOOB: adding VST types

FWIW the tutorials @:http://www.musicdevelopments.com/tutorials.html
have nothing on system setup (that I saw anyway).

I want to add several VST's to the instrument selection list. Some multi-timbrals - some not.
Looking at the Wiki for the settings versus the actual settings page, I have not succeeded.

If I select the settings 'Add','Load once..', and 'Overwrite existing instrument file', the app is not giving me a single instance of the multi-timbrals.

What is the actual sequence of steps to define the multi-timbral(s) for the instrument selection list?
If I have a composition w/multiple channels how will that Multi appear in the instrument list. Currently each time selected it appears as the inserted 'default' preset.

Yet to be encountered: I will wish to save the state of all the sub-settings as an 'instrument state' for re-use. How is that done?

TIA
musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:32 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

You did everything perfectly. You have to check "Load once...", and "Overwrite existing...".
Maybe this is not a good example because SynthMaster is not multi-timbral but this is just as an example:

Image

Then create a new composition, and select the plug-in you have just added as the instrument.
For the second track, using the same multi-timbral plug-in, you have to select (in this example) "SynthMaster" instead of "New Instance Of SynthMaster":

Image

The second track will use a different MIDI channel in the multi-timbral plug-in.

When you click on Save next to the Preset menu, the current state of the VST plug-in will be saved in the instrument browser. You can use that state as an 'instrument' later:

Image

Obviously this is not optimal for multi-timbral plug-ins which save data for all channels.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:05 pm Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Thanks for the fast reply. I admire your dedication and product support! :tu:

I think I got it. I was/am confused by the 'latching' of the multi attribute (Load once). As I add a plain then a multi then a plain then a multi...

I have seen the distinction for a 'new instance' in the instrument dialog, so somewhat on the path...
"...the current state of the VST plug-in will be saved in the instrument browser. "
This is needed for some of my multi's, which only have a preset named 'default'. I can get them set up for some usual config's via the edit menu, then be able to retrieve that config.

I have a great quantity of SF2 and VST instruments I would use, but this does not appear to be easily managed w/in RC. Think I will have to 'voice' after DAW export...
EDIT: This 'easily managed' comment prior to realization of the Instruments browser. :oops:

I have turned to the tutorial for now.
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Mon May 07, 2018 5:54 pm Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Back here. This procedure is confusing for multiple and multiple type additions.
Starting over. Deleted all VSTi's.
Added a single multi-timbral. To save the preset I create, it seemed I must have the instrument browser open. Did save and rename.
Auto assign subsequent tracks to appropriate midi channels does not work.
See same instance - Video here:
https://www.screencast.com/t/sPf7QCCr
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Tue May 08, 2018 4:54 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Trying to continue w/adding VSTi's. Noted the presets are not saved when project is closed w/o saving.
Shouldn't be project specific :?: (Those saved for 1st VST last night are there [in new project])
video here:
https://www.screencast.com/t/NSDyb91Ony

Side note: When I started RC this morning, it crashed two successive times when loading the VST added last night. On third attempt (when trying to screen capture), it seemed to load the VST twice, and then displayed message (something like 'Successful recovery'). Been okay for ~6 subsequent starts - trying new VST add...

NOTED for VSTi add. Single voice VSTi with deslect
2018-05-08_RC_VST_AddType_Err.png

Shows as multi in instrument selection.
Video here
https://www.screencast.com/t/V9eKKSWiy2z

Back at the desk some 90 minutes later. Open RC. Delete bogus Hybrid def. Add as single again. Works this time. Still will not save presets on new comp exit w/o save...
2018-05-08_RC_HybridSingleAdded.png


EDIT:
Turn on (multi-timbral) flag to add another VSTi (Korg M1)
Hybrid VSTi above is now bogus again.
Video here:
https://www.screencast.com/t/iNd6Mytq3VD5

HOW is this supposed to work? :help:
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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Tue May 08, 2018 8:08 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Thank you for reporting these issues, NTO!
I am having a hard time to watch your videos but now I found an older PC with Flash on it... ;)
I am investigating them and will make the necessary fixes today. It is very interesting that saved VSTi instruments are actually not saved! Do you use Windows7?

From v4.0 there won't be distinction between multitimbral and non-multitimbral VSTi's. The original idea was to automatically create tracks with VSTi instruments set up but I will leave the task of loading VSTi's to the user.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Tue May 08, 2018 8:19 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

NTO wrote:HOW is this supposed to work? :help:

Now I know what causes the confusion.
If you add a VST plug-in, make sure you create a new instrument file, that is overwrite the previous one. Whether a plug-in is multi-timbral or not is stored in the .rcINST file. If you do not overwrite that file, the previous setting is used, if you add the same plug-in multiple times. I am sorry for the confusion, this is not really done well in RC.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Tue May 08, 2018 8:50 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

"From v4.0 ..." :dog:

"I am having a hard time to watch your videos..."
IIRC, it was no problem on my iMac w/Chrome :roll: (Older OSX and not up today, but...)

Demo'd for multi (yesterday's add)
Auto assign subsequent tracks to appropriate midi channels does not work.

"Do you use Windows7?"
Yes
Phrasing - filename(s):
"...create a new instrument file, that is overwrite the previous one.
"...If you do not overwrite that file, "
2018-05-08_RC_VST_RmvDialog.png

"... If you do not overwrite that file..."
Why have it an option then? :o
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Last edited by NTO on Tue May 08, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Tue May 08, 2018 9:28 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Didn't attempt to answer the question above.
Trying to follow the instructions for existing (should be defined as) non-multi first.

Removed it w/Also delete...

Added w/Load once dark and Overwrite lit
and it's in as a multi again!

Seriously. It is such a pain I just have to quit using the program and leave the room! :x
Last edited by NTO on Tue May 08, 2018 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Tue May 08, 2018 9:51 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Hold on, you are right, there is something wrong in the menu.
Relax, I'll send you an update tomorrow. :)

I was planning to rework VSTi handling for a long time, but it was never high priority.
The .rcINST file stores all the presets, also the ones that you saved as a VST state.
If you check "Also delete .rcINST file" or "Overwrite existing instrument file", the presets will be lost too.
Fortunately these are text files that you can edit. If you look into Hybrid.dll.rcINST you will see "create_new_instance=1; " for non-multitimbral plug-ins.

I fixed the bug you found: the VSTi presets are really saved...

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Wed May 09, 2018 1:03 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

I was thinking...
Is that a big problem that multiple tracks can use the same non-multitimbral VST plug-in?
I mean you can do the same in DAWs: using a plug-in in one track, but sending the output of other tracks to the same plug-in.
The more I think about this, this is a feature, not a bug! :hihi:

I have checked it and it works like that since v3.0 and no-one complained.
I'll still send you an update with the saving bug fixed.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Wed May 09, 2018 5:56 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Thanks for the change. I'll check it out.
I would call it 'partial'.
Remaining problem seems related to Preset label not being updated on close of VSTi 'Edit'. (It is in the drop-down control, and will show on restart after non-saved exit - IF I manually select it from drop-down)
Results in:
2018-05-09_RC_PatchSavePartial.png
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Last edited by NTO on Wed May 09, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Wed May 09, 2018 6:18 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Cleared by virus checker. Thanks!
EDIT:
Wanted to do the above quick check.
Further tomorrow. :tu:
NTO
KVRist
 
36 posts since 8 Feb, 2011

Postby NTO; Thu May 10, 2018 6:53 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

I'll do this as a textual description rather than flash video (would be long anyway...), and attach that file rather than paste all here. (Text file not okay for upload, so zip has that plus the attempted recovery file and its backup folder - maybe help debug...)

Relevant moments
======Defect new instance of VST w/assigned preset does not show assigned preset
exited to revert to previous version...
Get warning dialog
2018-05-10_RC_VST_StepsTextFile.png

======Defect no instance numbers for VST on any track
Cannot trust state of file
So Abort test...

10May_RC_VST_Thread_1.zip


Later...

EDIT: Before I leave thought it may be helpful, here are all the Hybrid xxx.Inst and VSTi file from the DB
Hybrid_x64-Upload.zip
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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
 
2639 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Postby musicdevelopments; Thu May 10, 2018 7:08 am Re: NOOB: adding VST types

Thanks for uploading the steps to reproduce these issues!
I'll check them ASAP.

One note: you have tried to load the 64-bit Hybrid plug-in into the 32-bit RapidComposer. This won't work. The above error message means exactly that there is a mismatch between the 32-bit and 64-bit architectures.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions
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