KVR turning into a shop now?! (details please!)

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Michael L wrote:It's a risky business decision to compete with your commercial customers (especially after they helped build your business), and it's also risky to convert social media accounts into commercial accounts without user permission or even an opt-in. If no such stakeholders were consulted at all in the lead-up to this, I don't see how it's an example of good business ethics or creating kvr as a 'safe space.'
what commercial customers is a KVR-shop competing with ? 'only' other online retailers... I'm not sure how much of their revenue is attributable to advertising from such retailers, or by any other indirect route - but I suspect KVR know the figures. Seems to me that most of their advertising comes from developers etc. :shrug:


also, they haven't converted social media accounts into commercial accounts - at least not in any real practical terms. Sure, your forum account will log you in to the shop - it seems. But until you actually use your forum account to buy something from the KVR-shop (and thus link your personal banking/payment details to your forum name), I don't think you are any worse off in terms of security or privacy. :shrug:

if you feel strongly about it, create another account just for using the KVR-shop.

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ras.s wrote:
KVR wrote: User-Generated Content: You own and are solely responsible for any content including images, text, audio or other materials that you submit ("User Content"). By submitting User Content, you grant KVR a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable right and license to use, reproduce, distribute, create derivative works from, display, store, or publish in any way, in any media known now or in the future, in order to promote or provide the Services. For example, this allows KVR to edit User Content for sizing, orientation, and grammar, as well as allowing KVR to advertise your products using the User Content. You represent and warrant that the User Content: (a) is owned by you or you control all necessary rights to it; (b) does not violate, misappropriate or infringe on the rights of any third party including intellectual property rights, privacy rights or publicity rights; (c) is accurate, not obscene, false, libelous or defamatory; and (d) will not cause injury to any person, entity or system.

Does that mean that anything people write here from now on can end up in a advertisement, for example, in ads syndicated by Google? The sellers are also allowed to use the user content in case KVR decides to give it away (or perhaps sell it)?

And technically, no more posting random music hosted on Youtube?

I suspect it means they, KVR, will have the right to associate relevant content to products they are selling ... i.e, if they have a listing for Synth XYZ, they might include any content from the forum on the product page, like reviews and audio/video demos - or simply any comments that are effectively positive reviews.

:shrug:

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The example the quote itself gives is "For example, this allows KVR to edit User Content for sizing, orientation, and grammar, as well as allowing KVR to advertise your products using the User Content."

I suppose "your products" there refers to products that I've tagged as ones that I own or that I've bought through the new shop.

Anyways, sounds a bit dodgy. Especially as the content is also defined to mean posted audio.

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welp, will have to see what the policy is on creating new accounts purely for the purpose of using the shop. a dedicated account you only ever use to purchase stuff from the KVR-shop will bypass any of this privacy/copyright-control stuff ... which makes me think they might declare such thing verboten. in which case it is most certainly dodgy.


although, it occurs to me that the terms & conditions you posted apply to existing forum accounts, right ? if so I guess they can still use your content ... but at least having a separate account for commerce might keep things a bit more private/'safe' for people with such concerns... :shrug:

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ras.s wrote: In particular what sticks out like a sore thumb in the new Marketplace's terms & conditions is the part about user-generated content:
KVR wrote: User-Generated Content: You own and are solely responsible for any content including images, text, audio or other materials that you submit ("User Content"). By submitting User Content, you grant KVR a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable right and license to use, reproduce, distribute, create derivative works from, display, store, or publish in any way, in any media known now or in the future, in order to promote or provide the Services....
well that's relatively standard boilerplate, and as far as it looks from what's in the Marketplace right now, which lists plugins and content, seems to be the 'get relevant permission to reuse advertising blurb' that any reseller would probably need. "allowing KVR to advertise your products using the User Content" is the big clue here.

However, part (b) of this next part I find a bit weirder in that context, since it appears to be a restriction i'd more associate with person-to-person sales as per ebay.
Non-interference: The Services offered by KVR help both Buyers and Sellers find what they are looking for and to find products and customers which would otherwise not be found. Continued access of the Site and the Services indicates that you agree to the following: (a) you will not encourage any other user to use third-party services or websites which are in competition with KVR; (b) you will not use the Site to find a Buyer or Seller and then complete a transaction independent of the Site or Services in order to circumvent any fees related to the Services; or (c) otherwise interfere with product listings.
Plus I doubt part (a) will fly that well with any developer or reseller with their own store.

However, as per usual with KVR, I dont doubt that this is all 'subject to change' and will get tidied up and made clear in due course. I suspect that in the end, it'll turn out to be that all this stuff applies to a specific tier of business sellers and not the buyers or ordinary members, and that it has nothing to do with the existing Market Place (presumably due to be renamed KVR Classifieds, or summat, to avoid confusion).

In the meantime, though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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KVR isn't becoming a shop but the KVR Marketplace section is a new way for KVR to generate some revenue and hopefully provide some great offers to our members over time!

The KVR Marketplace is just another part of KVR which is why you are already logged in when you go to the MP section.

The Terms and Conditions are specifically to cover buyers and sellers (developers) in the marketplace and do not affect any other part of KVR. You don't have to agree to them until you checkout. You only need to add your name and address if you checkout, for card validation purposes. We don't store the card number.

I've put a note at the top of the terms and changed the section heading "User-Generated Content" to "User(Seller)-Generated Content" to make it clear we are talking about content supplied by the dev/seller in the course of offering a product for sale.

https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/te ... conditions

An official launch announcement will be forthcoming!

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And yes, the MP forum should probably be renamed to... ???

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Ben [KVR] wrote:And yes, the MP forum should probably be renamed to... ???
Classifieds?

Only on my first mug of tea so it's not the most original idea.
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Simply "Buy/Sell/Special Offers"? :P

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chk071 wrote:Simply "Buy/Sell/Special Offers"? :P
That's actually what I was leaning towards.

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ras.s wrote:
KVR wrote: User-Generated Content: You own and are solely responsible for any content including images, text, audio or other materials that you submit ("User Content"). By submitting User Content, you grant KVR a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable right and license to use, reproduce, distribute, create derivative works from, display, store, or publish in any way, in any media known now or in the future, in order to promote or provide the Services. For example, this allows KVR to edit User Content for sizing, orientation, and grammar, as well as allowing KVR to advertise your products using the User Content. You represent and warrant that the User Content: (a) is owned by you or you control all necessary rights to it; (b) does not violate, misappropriate or infringe on the rights of any third party including intellectual property rights, privacy rights or publicity rights; (c) is accurate, not obscene, false, libelous or defamatory; and (d) will not cause injury to any person, entity or system.

Does that mean that anything people write here from now on can end up in a advertisement, for example, in ads syndicated by Google? The sellers are also allowed to use the user content in case KVR decides to give it away (or perhaps sell it)?

And technically, no more posting random music hosted on Youtube?
It means that KVR are covering their asses so that you can't sue them if they make your text publicly accessible (which is presumably why you submitted it in the first place). After all, your text/images etc. are going to be subject to copyright the moment you create them.

But if KVR can't publish your text or marketing spiel, there is no marketplace, no forum, no reviews, no site. Ergo you need to give KVR permission to use this content so that the forum can exist. It's not a conspiracy by any stretch of the imagination.

Conversely, if you submit content that you don't own, KVR can say that you agreed to a contract that said you wouldn't do it, so they acted in good faith to allow that content to go online in the assumption that there was no copyright infringement. In other words, the copyright infringement was by the user, not KVR.



As for YT links; well the content is hosted on YT, so that's an issue for the copyright holder to take up with YT. The link in and of itself is not copyrighted and the video is not hosted on KVR. Dunno how it would pan out in court if a lawyer tried to argue that embedding videos on KVR constitutes copyright infringement by KVR as it is no longer just a link but an integral part of the page. One for the armchair lawyers to mull over I guess, and most likely would be different from country to country.
Last edited by sjm on Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Ben [KVR] wrote:And yes, the MP forum should probably be renamed to... ???
Ben, surely in keeping with finest KVR naming tradition, it should be called something a tad obscure?



FWIW is my suggestion.

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Doug1978 wrote: Ben, surely in keeping with finest KVR naming tradition, it should be called something a tad obscure?
You sure you don't confuse this with Gearslutz? :P

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Shhh! We mustn't speak the name of G*******Z around these parts :x :x

(Even though a fair few of us have accounts at both...).


And it's really about time we launched another KVR raiding party on that mob.

Who's with me, lads?

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Ben, thanks for the clarifications about the Terms and Conditions. Makes sense.

All the best in making the new marketplace a successful endeavour.

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