Can I disable the saving of samples?

[BuddhaMaster]

Using Tx16wx with FLStudio.
When I save a project with an instance of tx16wx thats having loaded soundfont, the program seems to save all instrument samples to the project-file.
This easily results in a 11 MB large project-file, or even larger.
A ordinary FLStudio Project should only be a few KB (maybe a few hundred).
But 11MB is way too large.

There is no need to save the samples.
Tx16wx has just got a soundfont loaded, why does it save the samples?
Is it really necessary to save all the samples in use withing the project file?
Can't it just relocate the soundfont used with my settings as they were?
Otherwise my project will easily result in 20-40x larger sizes and also takes a long time saving.

I hope I didn't misunderstand the concept, because otherwise it's a great, great capable and useful sampler. I don't need to save patches, just load them.
Thank you!

[BuddhaMaster]

btw: I tried various options in the sampler. So either this is a feature by design, or the option does not work in the latest release.

[DarkStar]

Does this explanation help?

Since a sound font is a monolithic container of one or more 'presets', which in turn map samples, loading one translates to a new performance + a program for each SF2 preset. When you drag the sound font into the key mapper you are not actually mapping anything. You are just loading the sound font (via D&D), which results in a new performance being created, with a new slot and mapping the first program in the Sf.

If you look in the performance combo after you done the stuff in the video, you will notice you now have a number of perfs created. Same thing if you check the loaded programs in the slot program selector.

Now, I can somewhat agree that the newly created performance does not really serve any purpose except to remind you that you loaded a sound font.

However, the discussion is somewhat moot as well, as TX16Wx 2.3.0 implements sound font patch loading, where you can browse the contents of a SF2 and load the presets you want, more or less what you thought was happening now.

I suggest you try out the beta.

Cheers
/C

From: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395265

[BuddhaMaster]

I tried the beta and it's behaving the same way.

Can I use tx16wx simply as a soundfont player without it going to save all .wav's contained within a soundfont on my FLS project save?

I really don't like the idea of project size increasing by ~40%

The reason I'm using tx16wx is to load 4 copies of a soundfont while each copy outputs to a a different signal output (while receiving signals from midi channel 1-4). Thats where it works just well, but without the cost of increased filesize please :/

[DarkStar]

Sorry for the confusion, I suggested that post as an explanation, not as a solution.

Anyway, once each one is loaded, save it as a .txprog and turn off the "Save waves in FXB " and "Save waves in project" on the Setup page.

Think of TX16Wx as a SoundFont importer, not a SoundFont Player.

[elcallio]

I tried the beta and it's behaving the same way.

Can I use tx16wx simply as a soundfont player without it going to save all .wav's contained within a soundfont on my FLS project save?

I really don't like the idea of project size increasing by ~40%

The reason I'm using tx16wx is to load 4 copies of a soundfont while each copy outputs to a a different signal output (while receiving signals from midi channel 1-4). Thats where it works just well, but without the cost of increased filesize please :/

TX16Wx is not a sound font player (as DS pointed out), but a general purpose sampler that _imports_ sound fonts. Thus, due to the monolithic format of SFs, and some other slight ambiguities in the SF2 definition, a loaded wave form must be saved as a plain file when you store a TX program on disk, since only file system level samples are supported as source material there. (It would perhaps make for a nice enhancement to allow "any resource" to be referenced instead, but that will be for a later day).

But, to really address your question: If you load a sound font (or parts of it), and _don't_ store it as a TX program, but only save the work in the host project (i.e. save your song, don't do any saving in the sampler), it _will_ in fact reference the sound font data without copying it (unless you have save all waves in FBX on). It might sound a little idiosyncratic, but think of it as the difference between volatile work in progress and solid stored data.

/C

[BuddhaMaster]

I tried the beta and it's behaving the same way.

Can I use tx16wx simply as a soundfont player without it going to save all .wav's contained within a soundfont on my FLS project save?

I really don't like the idea of project size increasing by ~40%

The reason I'm using tx16wx is to load 4 copies of a soundfont while each copy outputs to a a different signal output (while receiving signals from midi channel 1-4). Thats where it works just well, but without the cost of increased filesize please :/

TX16Wx is not a sound font player (as DS pointed out), but a general purpose sampler that _imports_ sound fonts. Thus, due to the monolithic format of SFs, and some other slight ambiguities in the SF2 definition, a loaded wave form must be saved as a plain file when you store a TX program on disk, since only file system level samples are supported as source material there. (It would perhaps make for a nice enhancement to allow "any resource" to be referenced instead, but that will be for a later day).

But, to really address your question: If you load a sound font (or parts of it), and _don't_ store it as a TX program, but only save the work in the host project (i.e. save your song, don't do any saving in the sampler), it _will_ in fact reference the sound font data without copying it (unless you have save all waves in FBX on). It might sound a little idiosyncratic, but think of it as the difference between volatile work in progress and solid stored data.

/C

The interesting thing is sort of, Tx16wx automatically saves the .wav files when I simply save my FLS project file.
It's like tx16wx is getting a "save now" signal and then does this internal sample-saving-thing.

Anything against that?

If not I'm probably better off using shortcircuit. Theres some disappointment, because I tried all free .SF2 players and unlike DSK sf2 plaer, Phenome, Synthfont and others, Tx16wx has very good soundquality.
It doesn't sound that much different than Fruity Soundfont Player as the others do, where the velocity-response and sound seems completely different.

[elcallio]

Do you have "save all waves in FBX" or "save waves in project" turned on? If so, try disabling them.

[BuddhaMaster]

Do you have "save all waves in FBX" or "save waves in project" turned on? If so, try disabling them.

Hello there

No. I have all options disabled and tried to toggle each one.
The only thing I was getting out of this, is that tx16wx not only saved the current soundset (?) but the whole GM soundfont and pushed the project file size even further to a whooping 111MB

[elcallio]

Do you have "save all waves in FBX" or "save waves in project" turned on? If so, try disabling them.

Hello there

No. I have all options disabled and tried to toggle each one.
The only thing I was getting out of this, is that tx16wx not only saved the current soundset (?) but the whole GM soundfont and pushed the project file size even further to a whooping 111MB

Yes, turning "save all waves" on will force everything to disk in the project. (Thus the 'disabling' part).
Then the only reason that the waves are stored (in the original post) would be that TX16Wx considers them modified (not just imported). Did you only load the SF2, no tweaking of the samples, trimming etc?

[BuddhaMaster]

Do you have "save all waves in FBX" or "save waves in project" turned on? If so, try disabling them.

Hello there

No. I have all options disabled and tried to toggle each one.
The only thing I was getting out of this, is that tx16wx not only saved the current soundset (?) but the whole GM soundfont and pushed the project file size even further to a whooping 111MB

Yes, turning "save all waves" on will force everything to disk in the project. (Thus the 'disabling' part).
Then the only reason that the waves are stored (in the original post) would be that TX16Wx considers them modified (not just imported). Did you only load the SF2, no tweaking of the samples, trimming etc?

Yes, As soon as I load an instance of tx16wx, load a soundfont within it, the saved project will result in increased filesize and tx16wx initiates the saving process (thus the filesize). Removing tx16wx again, the filesize is back.
I don't actually remember having this behavior, previously, before I had a harddisk crash and reinstalled FLStudio+plugins, doing so by simply extracting the setup files for tx16wx and renaming the DLL to .dll
I don't think there can be any logical reason why this should be responsible for the behavior. The tx16wx installation is still in place, I just had to copy the .dll file to my plugins folder again.

[elcallio]

I cannot reproduce the behviour you describe. Loading a soundfont and then saving the DAW bank works as it should here, i.e. waves are referenced from the SF2, not stored to disk.
Either something very fishy is going on with your "half-manual" install, or there is something about the SF2 you are using that causes different behaviour. If so, can you send it to me?

[BuddhaMaster]

I tried to clean reinstall the software. I cannot do this right now, since my other harddrive crashed the installer gives me an error 'invalid drive E:/'.
Which is now missing. Why its giving that error is not logical and I couldn't fix the installer.

But I got another drive of the same brand and I will try to switch the boards, see if it will start again. I'm quiet sure it will work when I reinstall the software. I'll report back then

[BuddhaMaster]

sorry it took so long, I just wanted to note that the plugin works just as well as well as supposed to. File size of a saved project is well within boundaries.
I've cleanly reinstalled the plugin and the problem was gone.

Thanks anyway for this great plugin again!