CWITEC

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:55 pm

Hi,

Firstly, thanks for TX16Wx. I haven't got very far into it yet but it looks great... and portable too (that's important for me).

Now then...

I've been messing with sfz drum patches and thought TX16Wx would make an ideal drum sampler for recording with a midi kit.

I'm using 'locc4' and 'hicc4' to switch between open closed sounds in the sfz but TX16Wx seems to ignore these opcodes and just plays either sound seemingly at random.

I noticed that TX16Wx has a switch facility that seems pretty simple so I thought no problem, I'll just set the switch for each group of samples... simple. Except every sample is in it's own group. So I have to go through a huge list of samples to find the ones I want and set the switches on them. Is there a way to sort the groups by name at least?

Of course, my first thought was why not simply put a group of samples in the sfz file into a group in TX16Wx... And then I noticed that the groups in TX16Wx have the velocity range associated with them rather than the samples. Why is this? I can't think of any time when this would be practicable. Whether it's drums, piano, guitar... each individual sample has it's own optimum velocity range so how can you usefully group any together without compromising their velocity range?

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:01 am

"Group" for tx16wx usually means WAV's, and while the velocity limits may seem wierd at first, it wroks pretty great with the other great features.

You could look at some examples. I have done a bunch of pretty deep drum kits for tx16wx.

Try this small simple kit (many roundrobins , no velocity layers) first :
smmdrums.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/sm-drums-non-velocity-max-round-robins-version-for-tx16wx-suleiman/

Or if you wanna go straight for the massive one (round robins and huge number of velocity layers):
smmdrums.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/sm-drums-suleimans-tx16wx-version/

The second one will show how i have organized the drum kit samples. i usually make each articulation (for eg : snare_center) as a wave matrix with all related velocity layers and round robins, and then map those matrices in keyboard mapper.

I use multiple channels / programs, each of which clubs each articulation for one particulat kit component.

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:47 pm

Thanks muslimpunk, I'll definitely check out the SMDrums when I get time - can't have too many drum sample lib's.

But my focus at the moment is more on the sfz format and finding a good sampler that supports it.

The groups I'm referring to are indeed groups according to the TX16Wx manual. A closer look shows that some of these groups actually contain multiple samples all sharing the same velocity range. So it would appear that TX16Wx creates a group for each velocity range it encounters and then adds all otherwise unrelated samples with the same velocity range to that group. Of course, this just produces random gibberish and is completely useless in terms of organisation.

Surely the bread and butter for groups would be grouping velocity splits of the same key range; That would be useful.

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:48 am

OK, so I've figured out how to get the loaded sfz program to a normal, basic starting point by using the 'splits to groups' and 'layers to matrix' menu options. So It would be good if TX16Wx could do this automatically on loading. For each group found in the sfz file, create a group and a wave matrix for all of it's regions.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:43 am

Marctwo wrote:OK, so I've figured out how to get the loaded sfz program to a normal, basic starting point by using the 'splits to groups' and 'layers to matrix' menu options. So It would be good if TX16Wx could do this automatically on loading. For each group found in the sfz file, create a group and a wave matrix for all of it's regions.

Agreed. Cross translation of sfz groups to tx16wx matrix and groups would be cool..... Maybe as an option during importing/ opening( because different ppl write their sfz differently).

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:29 am

Yes, could be an option between 'create matrices from regions' or 'create individual group for each region'. But definitely not 'put some regions in odd groups with other unrelated regions'... the way it is at the moment. lol

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:58 am

And just in case you missed it, here is the sfz version of the SM Drums kit:
https://smmdrums.wordpress.com/2015/03/ ... o-samples/

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:02 pm

A couple more points:
Firstly, can't the txmatrix files be saved as chunks in the txprog file? I think having these files separately just creates unnecessary clutter. I now have to scroll and search for the txprog file I'm after. Ok, I know it doesn't sound like such a big deal, but this is one of those things that's just going to get more and more annoying... especially as scrolling with the mousewheel is so bad in this UI.

Secondly, the notes in the choke groups are choking themselves. So if I play a normal open hat followed by a quiet one, the first is cut off. I've never noticed this behavior in a sampler before. How do you get around it?

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:29 pm

I can see your point about the txmatrix files clutter. There is one advantage though : this (current) way it is quickly used in multiple programs as an independent entity.

I do not understand your point about the choke. I have implemented this choke in a huge number of kits , including commercial ones and I have never seen / heard this behaviour.
I normally set the closed , open and foot hi hat articulations to choke group 1, and they choke each other.
Can you elaborate regarding your choke issue ?

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:49 pm

Just hit the open hat hard and then hit it softly, you should hear it cut off unnaturally.

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:51 pm

With the txmatrix files, if you want to use them outside the program, you can just save them independently.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:15 am

Marctwo wrote:Just hit the open hat hard and then hit it softly, you should hear it cut off unnaturally.

Aaah yes, it does cut itself if the mute group is on. You are absolutely right.

However, this has never affected my pleasure in playing any of the kits

It affects the natural emulation of the hi hat articulations with the longer tails (foot open or open hat or similar) and is noticeable especially if they are played 'naked' (solo / alone) . But having said that I have never noticed this.

Normally, only the hi-hat articulations are set to choke groups while everything is else is left as it is.

@ Calle : maybe self choking should be optional (in settings or something)?

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:02 pm

This issue probably wouldn't arise for most people with the open hat but with a loose half open hat playing fast it could be more problematic.

Most instruments I've used do this sort of thing with 'key groups' and a 'mute by' property. The sfz format uses 'group' and 'off_by'. So the closed and chick hat would be assigned to, say, key group 1 and the open hat would be set to mute by group 1. The open hat, not causing any muting, doesn't need to be in the group and so doesn't mute itself.

Although, I have to say I've never come across an instrument that handles the hihats convincingly. This includes the big drum samplers and the hardware modules. They all have flaws that you have to learn to avoid.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:16 pm

You should try the drum drops kontakt kits . If you have a midi controller keyboard / drum pad setup where you can assign 12 notes / pads to hi hats you will be in heaven !

They have mic controls and round robins too.

The MV packs are the same without the round robins and mic controls (including tx16wx patches amongst formats for many other samplers).

They sound great !

Marctwo · Post by **Marctwo** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:48 pm

Marctwo wrote:This issue probably wouldn't arise for most people...

I take it back, I'd expect most drummers to pick up on this self choking quite quickly. A fast roll on any hat sound with a bit of a tail sounds like the polyphony is set to 1.

I'd imagine it'd be quite simple to fix the current choke groups to prevent self choking but the 'self' has to be determined by the sample group rather than the key. Otherwise, different articulations assigned to the same key wouldn't choke. I know that may sound obvious but both sfz.dll and rapture get that wrong.

However, I think a switch groups and action properties approach would be much more versatile in the long run.

CWITEC

KVR Audio

sfz, drums and groups