Vel/R to AEG Attack modulation still erratic
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Burzukh_Studios Burzukh_Studios https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=263361
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 644 posts since 24 Aug, 2011 from Melbourne , Australia
I know that this has been discussed before, but it is still unclear to me.
When you a hit a drum harder, it has a sharper transient (less attack).
Based on this I'm trying to modulate a sample's AEG attack time with the MIDI velocity. However, no matter what settings I do, I never get the desired effect.
The result I want is that at MIDI Velocity = 127, the AEG attack should be zero and the sample should pretty much play as it is.
The screenshot should explain the settings and the results I am getting : This is not the result I am looking for. The three lanes show the result I am getting, the MIDI file I am using (with the increasing velocities) and the original sample.
When you a hit a drum harder, it has a sharper transient (less attack).
Based on this I'm trying to modulate a sample's AEG attack time with the MIDI velocity. However, no matter what settings I do, I never get the desired effect.
The result I want is that at MIDI Velocity = 127, the AEG attack should be zero and the sample should pretty much play as it is.
The screenshot should explain the settings and the results I am getting : This is not the result I am looking for. The three lanes show the result I am getting, the MIDI file I am using (with the increasing velocities) and the original sample.
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Burzukh_Studios Burzukh_Studios https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=263361
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 644 posts since 24 Aug, 2011 from Melbourne , Australia
Please note that to get to the point above I had to make some contradictory moves :
-Even though I needed to decrease the AEG Attack with increasing velocity, I had to set a positive amount (+1.5) instead of a negative amount. If I set a negative amount ( - 1.5 ) i get this :
-Even though I needed to decrease the AEG Attack with increasing velocity, I had to set a positive amount (+1.5) instead of a negative amount. If I set a negative amount ( - 1.5 ) i get this :
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
I cannot really tell much from your screenshots, both because of resolution and because I am not sure what you exactly expect...
AEG Attack, however, like AEG Time, are both _multiplicative (by an exponential factor) on rate_, i.e. a positive value will mean a times N factor time rate -> positive values mean faster attack. An obvious snag with this is that your will indeed never be able to get to zero attack this way. Close, but not zero. And obviously it will also depend on the initial attack value...
There might be cause to have a time-based attack modulation point, i.e. slide linearly between -N - 0 - N ms change in actual attack time. Makes the AEG again slightly more expensive, but perhaps...
AEG Attack, however, like AEG Time, are both _multiplicative (by an exponential factor) on rate_, i.e. a positive value will mean a times N factor time rate -> positive values mean faster attack. An obvious snag with this is that your will indeed never be able to get to zero attack this way. Close, but not zero. And obviously it will also depend on the initial attack value...
There might be cause to have a time-based attack modulation point, i.e. slide linearly between -N - 0 - N ms change in actual attack time. Makes the AEG again slightly more expensive, but perhaps...
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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Burzukh_Studios Burzukh_Studios https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=263361
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 644 posts since 24 Aug, 2011 from Melbourne , Australia
In the first screenshot (with mod amount set to +1.5), you can see the attack time reducing (getting faster), but at the sixth MIDI note it becomes the fastest that it can (As close to zero as possible) and stays that way for the last 5 MIDI notes.
I just want it to peak at MIDI velocity = 127.
So at velocity = 1 it should be the minimum that I specify and at velocity = 127 it should be the maximum (fastest attack) that I specify. It should increase linearly. How do I achieve this ?
Also, the attack amount that I set from the AEG attack dial is the velocity=1 (max attack / slowest attack) amount , right ?
I just want it to peak at MIDI velocity = 127.
So at velocity = 1 it should be the minimum that I specify and at velocity = 127 it should be the maximum (fastest attack) that I specify. It should increase linearly. How do I achieve this ?
Also, the attack amount that I set from the AEG attack dial is the velocity=1 (max attack / slowest attack) amount , right ?
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Burzukh_Studios Burzukh_Studios https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=263361
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 644 posts since 24 Aug, 2011 from Melbourne , Australia
Ok. I finally got it just about right.
See the settings and the results below :
I also added a little velocity to pitch mod. (with just a tiny bit of randomization) for further realism.
To be honest, this whole endeavour is inspired by you Calle. No, I'm not being patronizing or flattering. But it was your comments regarding the purpose of tx16wx and your multiple rants on over large modern sample libraries that got me thinking.
I have intentionally limited myself to a single sample (or two) per note and am trying to acheive my results through computation/ processing rather than 50,000 samples.
Next up is AEG Time modulation. But I again have an issue. What exactly is AEG Time ? It is mentioned as "the overall speed (time between stages) of the AEG" , but that description raises some questions :
Is that like a decay 1 + 2+ release ? I only want to modulate the release part of the sound without effecting the attack at all (which is already taken care of via the previous excercise).
The purpose to have increasing release time with increasing MIDI velocity. Do I use a + amount or a -amount ?
Do I set-up an initial release value in the AEG like i did with attack or leave it at is current zero value ?
The sample is currently playing as one shot. Experimentation so far has not yielded the desired results.
See the settings and the results below :
I also added a little velocity to pitch mod. (with just a tiny bit of randomization) for further realism.
To be honest, this whole endeavour is inspired by you Calle. No, I'm not being patronizing or flattering. But it was your comments regarding the purpose of tx16wx and your multiple rants on over large modern sample libraries that got me thinking.
I have intentionally limited myself to a single sample (or two) per note and am trying to acheive my results through computation/ processing rather than 50,000 samples.
Next up is AEG Time modulation. But I again have an issue. What exactly is AEG Time ? It is mentioned as "the overall speed (time between stages) of the AEG" , but that description raises some questions :
Is that like a decay 1 + 2+ release ? I only want to modulate the release part of the sound without effecting the attack at all (which is already taken care of via the previous excercise).
The purpose to have increasing release time with increasing MIDI velocity. Do I use a + amount or a -amount ?
Do I set-up an initial release value in the AEG like i did with attack or leave it at is current zero value ?
The sample is currently playing as one shot. Experimentation so far has not yielded the desired results.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
AEG Time affects the rest of the envelope stages rate, same as AEG Attack. I.e. it is an exponential multiply of the _rate_, i.e. positive values makes the rate faster -> envelope shorter. And vice versa.
However, a stage set to 0ms will remain at 0ms (the downside of multiplicative mods).
In the case of one-shot envs, you should use the decay stages to shape the sound. Decay1 is basically your "hold", level1 your release level, and decay2 the effective release in oneshot (->AHR) mode.
Btw, a worthy cause to try building good instruments with minimal samples. I wholeheartedly approve. And I'll be happy to help as much as I can.
However, a stage set to 0ms will remain at 0ms (the downside of multiplicative mods).
In the case of one-shot envs, you should use the decay stages to shape the sound. Decay1 is basically your "hold", level1 your release level, and decay2 the effective release in oneshot (->AHR) mode.
Btw, a worthy cause to try building good instruments with minimal samples. I wholeheartedly approve. And I'll be happy to help as much as I can.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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Burzukh_Studios Burzukh_Studios https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=263361
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 644 posts since 24 Aug, 2011 from Melbourne , Australia