Tracktion would be awesome on an iPad

[Sparkyinc1914]

I love Tracktion. It feels like home for me and I don't want to use anything else. It is so exciting to see how things are progressing again. We have an awesome release on Mac and PC and even Linux is progressing well. All we need now is an app for ipad. If this happened I would die and go to heaven. Tracktion would be the first to be on all these platforms at the same time. I think it would really catapult Tracktion to a whole new group and generation of song writers. I personally have been experimenting with recording on my ipad and I got to say it is pretty awesome. There is so much potential and it is so portable. In my opinion Tracktion would be a perfect fit. The way it is setup with the single screen layout and tabs already lends itself to what would work on an ipad with the touch screen. All we would need is audiobus support and inter app audio support and we would be off and running. There are so many good effects and plugins already on the App Store. Maybe if we talk about this enough we can get Jules to think about it. What does everyone else think?

[danboid]

+v.much for Tracktion on Android and iOS! There are a few, pretty basic DAWs for Android but nothing anywhere near as good as Tracktion!

This is why their work on the Linux port is such a good thing as I hope this work means the Android port will 'just work' with almost no extra effort for TSC (I can hear their mirth now) seeing as JUCE already supports Android and iOS. Never having developed for either and not knowing JUCE well enough I'm purely speculating here but I wanted to at least show my shared enthusiasm for the mobile ports.

Tracktion + Caustic would bring a full power production environment to your pocket, at least if Caustic gets JACK support! Let's get petitioning Caustics dev for JACK support now, just in case!

[chico.co.uk]

Android still has a big latency problem, which buggers it up for a lot of audio recording type stuff

iOs addressed that several years back, or maybe always accomodated it. As far as I know, even the latest android tabs still have an annoyingly high latency issue

[danboid]

Android did have a big latency prob but apparently its significantly improved since 4.1.

http://source.android.com/devices/latency_design.html

[chico.co.uk]

My Phone is 4.2.2, and it isn't significantly improved *enough*, in the real world. I've been waiting for it to be for quite a while, if I've missed something, i'd be delighted to hear it, but my understanding is that there's something in 4.3 that might help, but isn't anywhere near where i'd want it to be yet ...

eg,

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comment ... surements/

They're still saying 40 m/s, compared to 5-6 m/s in iOs

[danboid]

Hi chico.co.uk

After reading that thread you linked to, the 40ms latency measurement you quote was took from Caustic and the dev has since removed this latency measurement as he said it was flawed.

What that thread concludes is that the real latency of Android (at least on Nexus devices with 4.3 or later) devices is more like 10ms for the audio latency and the extra 30ms or so is the touch latency.

If I was to use Caustic or Traction on my Android devices I would be attaching my Scarlett 2i4, which includes MIDI IN. I've read on the JACK mailing list that at least one list member has got ALSA MIDI working under Android which means if you have a USB MIDI adapter / input device you should be able to bypass the screen latency and ~10ms should be perfectly usable.

I'm going to enquire on the JACK list to see if anyone has took any latency measurements for JACK on Android.

[Sparkyinc1914]

Reason why I started thread is because of a new toy I got. I just got an iRig Pro from IK Multimedia. Made my ipad complete portable recording machine. It takes instrument in and will provide phantom power for a condenser mic by an internal 9 volt battery. Even takes a midi in and will route to ipad. Work with very little latency. Completely mobile recording solution. Would love to start a session on iPad out on the road and finish on my Mac or PC. Love android to but got to be honest they are equal in most things except audio. Auria an iPad DAW can record 24 inputs similtanously. But it is not Tracktion. Just wish was on iPad.

[chico.co.uk]

Similarly I've a little netbook that I run Mint Linux on these days, that's 32 bit, that I'd love to use just as an audio recording sketchpad doo-dah. And various android tablets, phones etc. iPhone from work. I'd be keen on any of those running Tracktion. Personally, i'd prefer a 32 bit linux build, but that's purely selfish. Expect most people would prefer an iPad, or Android tablet version.

I'd imagine an iPad version *might* show up first, if ever, out of that lot. Just because of the latency thing on android, and (probably, i'm guessing) the challenge of supporting a beta linux build on ageing hardware. That'd be my least favourite option, but only because i don't have an iPad. Might even be the thing to push me into finally getting one, if money ever becomes available again ...

[TSC]

This is the first time I have heard this request for about nine months - before that there seemed to be a lot more interest....

For us, we have been discussing the option of running T on these platforms since the beginning - Juce is already compatible with both so it would be relatively straightforward to port the app - however that would not produce the best experience as T is designed to be controlled by key/mouse and touch - not just touch. So we have discussed a specific version of T for those applications.

The decline in interest has meant that this development has been pushed down the priority list in favor of some big ticket items for the main Mac/PC/Linux version

The swell of interest, not surprisingly, appears to be linked with the consumer reaction to new hardware - Apples headlines (in the music creation market) have been more focused on the desktop recently - Mac Pro, iMac's and laptops - which offer unprecedented power with very few compromises - this has further widened the gap between the limited capabilities of the mobile platforms

I have both at home, and for me, I would still turn to my Macbook to do any audio work - its portable and supports all my hardware and plugins plus I don't have to worry about processing. I can think of times where the iPad would be fun to have a recording app but in reality it gets used to play movies for my son and browse the internet

What are your thoughts on this topic - what should Tracktion on an iPad do? Should it be a 'game like' creativity app thats a fun ideation tool.... or a simple 24 track recorder for capturing moments... or.....

[danboid]

... T is designed to be controlled by key/mouse and touch - not just touch. So we have discussed a specific version of T for those applications....

<snip>

What are your thoughts on this topic - what should Tracktion on an iPad do? Should it be a 'game like' creativity app thats a fun ideation tool.... or a simple 24 track recorder for capturing moments... or.....

I was only interested in seeing the full Tracktion ported to Android or iOS. If I was using it on an Android tablet it'd need to have at least 2 full, powered USB ports to use it in my mind - one for a keyboard/hub/mouse and the other for a USB MIDI/audio device. I'm not sure Id be able to pull that off on an iPad? Its true that kinda arrangement is arguably less portable than a laptop depending on how big your keyboard and mouse/tracking device are but it may be a bit smaller lighter and bring better battery life at the cost of CPU grunt, RAM and speed. It could be good for tracking stuff out of the (home) studio or MIDI editing on public transport.

I've not tried to run T5 on a laptop w/ touchscreen but I'd have imagined it would've been quite usable with touch aloneso long as you have a decent sized screen? I suspect my assumptions there were quite flawed by the sounds of things.

I wouldn't want to see a 'Tracktion lite' like they've done with FL and I'd much rather TSC devote your time to perfecting 'desktop Tracktion' rather than focus on mobile, if its a choice between the two, no doubt about it.

'Tracktion everywhere' and in its full glory on all popular OSs just seemed cool to me!

[danboid]

... T is designed to be controlled by key/mouse and touch - not just touch. So we have discussed a specific version of T for those applications....

<snip>

What are your thoughts on this topic - what should Tracktion on an iPad do? Should it be a 'game like' creativity app thats a fun ideation tool.... or a simple 24 track recorder for capturing moments... or.....

I was only interested in seeing the full Tracktion ported to Android or iOS. If I was using it on an Android tablet I'd often want at least 2 full, powered USB ports - one for a keyboard/hub/mouse and the other for a USB MIDI/audio device. I'm not sure I'd be able to pull that off on an iPad? Its true that kinda arrangement is arguably less portable than a laptop depending on how big your keyboard and mouse/tracking device are but it may be a bit smaller lighter and offer better battery life at the cost of the superior spec of a laptop. T5 mobile could be good for tracking stuff out of the (home) studio or MIDI editing on public transport, not really for mixing and mastering etc.

I've not tried to run T5 on a laptop w/ touchscreen but I'd have imagined it would've been quite usable with touch alone so long as you have a decent sized screen? I suspect my assumptions there were quite flawed by the sounds of things?

I wouldn't want to see a 'Tracktion lite' like they've done with FL and I'd much rather TSC devote your time to perfecting desktop/laptop Tracktion rather than focus on mobile, if its a choice between the two, no doubt about it.

'Tracktion everywhere' and in its full glory on all popular OSs just seemed cool to me!

[Sparkyinc1914]

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Here are my thoughts about why this should be done and how it should be done.
Why one might ask. When I first saw or heard of the iPad I thought is was silly and would never take off. I was clearly wrong. Apple has sold 200 million of them. Then I thought it was only a cunstumption device. You know get your email, surf the net and read a book. I was wrong again. They have progressed far enough and are good enough for a creation device. I have progressively seen the power of it. My close friend just cut an EP using only an iPad and his presonus interface. All mixing and mastering was done on his iPad Air. Here is the link. http://shiftyeye.bandcamp.com (http://shiftyeye.bandcamp.com)
He used an app called Auria. It is a powerhouse and shows just how powerful an ipad can be. But Auria is no Tracktion. It has all those sliders and knobs and channel strips. Yuck.
When I used Tracktion for the first time many years ago it just made sense. So simple yet so powerful. I got the same feeling when I first used my iPad. I know it may sound crazy but there is a whole generation that is growing up in which Tablets are there go to device. There is an incredibly vibrant music creation community developing on these devices. If tracktion could be ported well enough it would hit a home run. There is absolutely nothing like it in the App Store it would just take off.
I couldn't believe the ammount of usb interfaces that work with an ipad with a simple camera connection kit. Interface developers are already moving towards the ipad.
Ios also has has audiobus and inter app audio. I can run a midi instrument app to an effect app to a recording app seamlessly now. I could go on and on but I won't.
Here is how it should be done. It has to be fully touchscreen. No hocking up keyboards or anything else. 100 percent touchscreen. That is what makes it an ipad. I gotta to say Auria does a nice job. It can be done. It will just require some thinking on how to do this.
Also it needs have the same potential as the desktop app. Here's why.
I envision using it in this way. I take my ipad out and about and because it is so portable I can lay a quick track down. When I get back home I seamless pick up where I left off on my Mac. I go to bed and laying there in bed pick up where I least off on my Mac but now I am on my ipad again. I know this is a dream for now but it is not impossible. All it needs is a good import and export feature. I am sure it can't have everything the desktop version has but it will have all the main features.
If this can be done we will have a winner. It would really put Tracktion into the mainstream. It would help the desktop version in my opinion in the long run. Just the thought that you guys could port it gets me all excited. Give it some thought.

[zendorf]

Why should the devs bother when it already works fine on a W8 tablet PC if you need a tablet version. Win 8 tablets and hybrids are now getting dirt cheap and will run all your existing plugins and daws. You get the best of both worlds as you can sketch out musical ideas on the run and then bring it over to your workstation/laptop for refinement....all using the same DAW/plugins.

There are already a ton of ipad daws out there , so I would prefer to see more effort put into Tracktion becoming THE goto Win8 touch ready DAW. There is very little competition in this area and would help differentiate Tracktion from other DAWS and future proof it. Currently Sonar, FL and Stagelight are the only ones I know of at a pro/semi pro level that have some dedicated touch mode usability. Tracktion already works decently with stylus (I have tried it on my older Asus tablet), but any right click options become an issue unless you use a 2 button stylus.

Tracktion is already primed to do well in this area with its non-blocking interface, drag drop workflow and vector GUI. Would be great to see a dedicated touch only mode that it could be put into, that would eliminate right clicks and make it possible to do standard touch friendly zooms and gestures. The GUI needs to be able to size up and down seamlessly to able to be used with touch. Much less of an issue of you use a stylus on something like a Surface Pro.

[danboid]

Whilst its true W8 tablets would offer many more plugins than iOS and moreso Android, there are also many, many more iPads and Android tablets out there than W8 tablets. Also Windows has a glut of DAWs whilst Android has but a few and none that could even be called semi-pro, that I've seen.

You say it works fine on a W8 tablet PC but do you mean it runs (which we know) or you find it usable with touch only already? You seem to think it needs some improvement for touch only use.

It seems to me that the most sensible course of action here is to get T working nicely with touch on the existing platforms then it could be a straight port of the existing code base to iOS and Android, if the developers think there is enough interest in doing so.

[danboid]

If significant alterations are required to the UI to make it work well with touch only then I'd prefer this to be added as a 'Touch mode' option to regular Tracktion rather than having a separate, watered-down mobile edition. This would enable those who want to attach a keyboard and/or mouse to a tablet to use it exactly as they do in the desktop/laptop versions and maintain the current 'one codebase to rule them all' advantages.