TSC Request for Help with Tracking Down Collective Silence Bug

[Benutzername]

Still instant silence here. Hmm.

Windows or what?

Ubuntu -> Specs

[magicmusic]

I tested some of the same tracks in a couple of other DAWs, but never had a complete audio failure. The sound would briefly drop out on a single track, then resume by itself. It was hard to reproduce, and was not frequent.

so this mean that it still not work ok. that sound dropout resume after 1 sec by itself happen since they fix something. wy do you still not tell what CPU type you have. on faster CPU or more than 2 cores the problems seem happen more often. when i disable cores(can do in bios), then silence happen not so often

you have written that you use win 10. If you do not know what CPU you have you can open the startbar on left side in windowas and type in cpu. now click on the findet text to open this setting. this show which cpu you have, ram and windows 10 version build

[zzz00m]

I tested some of the same tracks in a couple of other DAWs, but never had a complete audio failure. The sound would briefly drop out on a single track, then resume by itself. It was hard to reproduce, and was not frequent.

so this mean that it still not work ok. that sound dropout resume after 1 sec by itself happen since they fix something. wy do you still not tell what CPU type you have. on faster CPU or more than 2 cores the problems seem happen more often. when i disable cores(can do in bios), then silence happen not so often

you have written that you use win 10. If you do not know what CPU you have you can open the startbar on left side in windowas and type in cpu. now click on the findet text to open this setting. this show which cpu you have, ram and windows 10 version build

I no longer have any Collective silence issues. I was referencing "had", as in the past tense, when testing with other DAWs. I stopped using Collective for several months, and no longer have this problem with v1.1.0.

I do know what my CPU is because I built the PC myself. However, I do not think that my CPU model is relevant to this thread discussion for helping the devs fix the problem. If the devs want it, they are free to contact me for more info.

FYI, in Windows the hardware is abstracted, so application devs do not need to deal with low level machine code or hardware specifics anyway.

[chico.co.uk]

Can anybody create a Tracktion archive with a simple edit with Collective in it that shows the problem, and upload it somewhere? It'd be interesting to see if it fails on everybody's install, or just certain machines. Not to blame anybody's hardware, just maybe we could find a common theme, like it's users with a non-english language install, or whatever (just an example)

[zzz00m]

Can anybody create a Tracktion archive with a simple edit with Collective in it that shows the problem, and upload it somewhere? It'd be interesting to see if it fails on everybody's install, or just certain machines. Not to blame anybody's hardware, just maybe we could find a common theme, like it's users with a non-english language install, or whatever (just an example)

It looks like it's fixed for now, at least on the Windows side here in my PC configuration...

[magicmusic]

FYI, in Windows the hardware is abstracted, so application devs do not need to deal with low level machine code or hardware specifics anyway.

I dont know wy it is such a secret what CPU you use.
programmers need make sure with semaphore that global variables that need for all instances can only access by 1 thread at same time. and such semaphore problems happen more often when a CPU have many cores.

The following example uses a semaphore object to limit the number of threads that can perform a particular task. First, it uses the CreateSemaphore function to create the semaphore and to specify initial and maximum counts, then it uses the CreateThread function to create the threads.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/librar ... s.85).aspx

for example that the sound come back after 1 sec on newer versions can maybe happen that the developers the wait for semaphore release set to 1 sec. so after 1 sec is over, the thread continue and so it hang not endless as in older collective(which resume not the sound)

[zzz00m]

FYI, in Windows the hardware is abstracted, so application devs do not need to deal with low level machine code or hardware specifics anyway.

I dont know wy it is such a secret what CPU you use.
programmers need make sure with semaphore that global variabled that work for all instances can only access by 1 thread at same time. and such semaphore problems happen more often when a CPU have many cores.

The following example uses a semaphore object to limit the number of threads that can perform a particular task. First, it uses the CreateSemaphore function to create the semaphore and to specify initial and maximum counts, then it uses the CreateThread function to create the threads.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/librar ... s.85).aspx

Please stop wasting our bandwidth and cluttering up this thread with your incessant off-topic whining.

You are not the developer. The devs just need data to solve the problem, not speculation and suggestions on how to code. You are getting very annoying here.

[twilli003]

zzz00m,
Apart from the intermittent silence problem, (which you are no longer experiencing) there appears to be a problem with the distortion effect that's 100% reproducible on my system.
This appears to be a separate problem from the intermittent problem. The intermittent problem can occur even when there is no distortion effect active.

Can you confirm that you are also not able to reproduce the distortion effect problem?
To reproduce the problem with the distortion effect, select any preset containing a single sound layer, activate the distortion effect and turn up the Drive parameter with the Type parameter set to Medium or Hard.
If the problem exists on your system, doing this should silence the sound.

[zzz00m]

zzz00m,
Apart from the intermittent silence problem, (which you are no longer experiencing) there appears to be a problem with the distortion effect that's 100% reproducible on my system.
This appears to be a separate problem from the intermittent problem. The intermittent problem can occur even when there is no distortion effect active.

Can you confirm that you are also not able to reproduce the distortion effect problem?
To reproduce the problem with the distortion effect, select any preset containing a single sound layer, activate the distortion effect and turn up the Drive parameter with the Type parameter set to Medium or Hard.
If the problem exists on your system, doing this should silence the sound.

Yup, you are correct. That is a completely different issue, and appears to be a bug in the distortion effect.

Just played around with it on preset 'Les Paul Champ', and your recipe is definitely reproducible.

Have not noticed that being reported around here yet, so that bug probably needs to have it's own forum thread started...

[magicmusic]

Yup, you are correct. That is a completely different issue, and appears to be a bug in the distortion effect.

Just played around with it on preset 'Les Paul Champ', and your recipe is definitely reproducible.

Have not noticed that being reported around here yet, so that bug probably needs to have it's own forum thread started...

I have report this long time ago with a video from 14.05.2017 (see my previous post). but it is not fix. same the redraw problem of collective. if this problems, happen only on some systems, because the sound developer and collective developers notice this not, it is good chance that this show more easy which code writung style produce distortion silence and fail on some systems.

I did know which compiler versions they use, but if code work sometimes or sometimes not, it is good to compile and release without optimizer disable, if the problem then happen more often or more selden. if there is a diffrence it can be timer problem or maybe compiler optimizer problems. and if only the optimezed version fail also try a newer compiler version

[dRowAudio]

This thread is 9 pages long now and there have been many iterations of Collective and Waveform since it was started.

Can we perhaps start a new thread with the current state of bugs making sure everyone is using:
• Waveform 8.2.7
• Collective 1.1.3 (available as beta)

It is also very useful to include system specs (particularly the OS) in your signature as it's near impossible to remember what issues are being reported for which platform when threads are long.

Thanks!
Dave

[zzz00m]

This thread is 9 pages long now and there have been many iterations of Collective and Waveform since it was started.

Can we perhaps start a new thread with the current state of bugs making sure everyone is using:
• Waveform 8.2.7
• Collective 1.1.3 (available as beta)

It is also very useful to include system specs (particularly the OS) in your signature as it's near impossible to remember what issues are being reported for which platform when threads are long.

Thanks!
Dave

Great idea Dave!

[magicmusic]

is there now a new thread for this ?. w9 have same problem. i use newest 9.0.39 beta und 1.1.3 collective.

I can reproduce silent bug on some sounds and some notes always. it happen always with blue pad or chick lead 1 sound and when press on midi keyboard a C upto e key (sequencer is stop, i play live with midi kyboard). the cutoff of the filter is on c upto e keys key very low set. see video. i change also settings of other knobs. when disable the filter then work ok (to make poste smaller video is delete, because this sound work now in 1.1.7)

Problem happen with many other sounds too. on multilayer sounds it is not a silence, it happen that some layers not sound. but when you play a tone ladder you can hear that some layers miss to play.

Problem with waveform look as many users of waveform that are in forum do not use midi or do not use collective. and new users that want use it, notice maybe the bugs, but thunk it is waste time to report such a Bug. but i hope that waveform developers do not think my win install is broken or my hardware is damage because no other report this.

maybe other can test if this happen too.

[dRowAudio]

I think Wolfram addressed this in a recent beta. Can you grab it and see if the situation has improved? https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

[zzz00m]

I think Wolfram addressed this in a recent beta. Can you grab it and see if the situation has improved? https://marketplace.tracktion.com/shop/ ... collective

Yes, I think that this was discussed in another thread. I found some missing notes with certain presets in 1.1.3, and confirmed again today. Just tried the Collective 1.1.7 beta and the problem appears to have been resolved.

No signs of audio silence during playback either, although had not noticed that lately!

Running Waveform 9.0.37 and things seem stable now.