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trtzbass
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78 posts since 5 Dec, 2014, from London

Postby trtzbass; Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:11 pm Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Been making music for maaaaany years now and I'm on the wrong side of my 40s, so that makes me officially vintage.
Because of my ,eh,"legacy" workflow, I appreciate writing music on music "paper".
Now - I know that times have changed and the kids are not down with that. Workflows have evolved away from that and I'm not even saying that it's a bad thing.
Even so, if you go to any DAW's forums, the request for a score editor, even a basic one, is a very common and highly voted feature request. On the SONAR forum, the thread about improving the already existing (and poorly implemented) score editor is the biggest on the website with 1165 posts on 36 pages.
So I'm going to go ahead and make a wish.
It would be super cool if somebody developed a score editor page for Waveform, that would integrate with the already existing program, to be purchased separately and "bolted on" the main software.
There is a large community of composers who are always on the lookout for a one stop solution to write music the old fashioned way but with the flexibility of modern workflow.
To this day there is no program that does it well, and one needs to either export an audio file from the DAW to be imported into and external score editor or to Rewire two programs which is a pain and never really works because the changes in one software don't directly reflect on the other one.
Honorable mention goes to Presonus that has two outstanding pieces of software, Studio One and Notion that have a clunky, poorly implemented co - integration that doesn't really solve the problem.

If a score editor add on had the following features:
1) programmable key switches to change articulation by simply writing IDK "pizz" or "stacc" on the score
2) MIDI volume mappable dynamic signs (pppp to fffff) and functional < >
3) Percussion score with editable drum map

I am ready to bet whatever that would sell well; I myself would happily pay 100$ upwards to get my hands on it.
I understand this is all wishful thinking and that it is probably an idea that would appeal to a limited group of the existing Waveform user base, but I firmly believe that out there, there is a fairly big request for such a feature

Thoughts?
He tried to play bass.
www.jordanbrown.co.uk
jabe
KVRAF
 
1652 posts since 8 Oct, 2008, from UK

Postby jabe; Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:14 pm Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

I downloaded a freebie called Forte Basic 7 that works from a score. It will export as MIDI or audio. I also got hold of Finale Notepad 2012, which lets you save as MIDI. Both free. Whether they have the depth you require, I couldn't say.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9, 32&64, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.
dRowAudio
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1156 posts since 30 Dec, 2012

Postby dRowAudio; Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:48 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

I agree it would be a great feature to have but as you point out it's difficult to do well and not something we have the resources to tackle right now.
trtzbass
KVRist
 
78 posts since 5 Dec, 2014, from London

Postby trtzbass; Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:04 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

dRowAudio wrote:I agree it would be a great feature to have but as you point out it's difficult to do well and not something we have the resources to tackle right now.


yes I do perfectly understand that. Of course I can imagine and I offered the idea with the utmost respect for the devs who are already doing a stellar job.
There are a few guys out there (Forte and SonicScores come to mind) who are looking to gain market penetration. Maybe they'd be cool to do a joint venture?
Obviously it would be a massive task to undertake not knowing the outcome of the implementation so maybe crowdfunding it could be a viable way? It's a way for you to get the resources and see real interest and a way for us to put the money where the mouth is.

Regardless, keep going, Tracktion is brilliant
He tried to play bass.
www.jordanbrown.co.uk
MBO
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38 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:06 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

It really would be a great feature, I would see it as an important addition to MIDI features, especially to all functions related to melody/harmony/chords progressions etc.

For example I use Guitar Pro 7 for guitars/bass/drums arrangements but also for brass and piano. Very efficient when comes to scoring but still buggy and somehow limited (no possibility to use external vst's). For more complicated arrangements I use Notion 6 (good sound library but working with scores is much slower, integration with Studio One is rather for demo purposes than normal work) or I use notation directly in Reaper (they introduced notation lately, it is really good but not as good as in GuitarPro and no guitar/drum tabs). There is Steinberg's Dorico but still without guitar tabs etc. So it all time switching between apps.
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Stuttaton
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260 posts since 24 Jan, 2004, from Sweden

Postby Stuttaton; Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:01 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Before a score feature, I would like to see a lyrics feature. That would most certainly be less work to implement too. And would be very valuable for us song writers.
I'm talking of a track where you can enter text and anchor the syllables to beats. Come on! That can't be too hard to do...
TSC
Tracktioneer
 
504 posts since 31 Dec, 2012, from Seattle

Postby TSC; Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:19 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Creating a scoring app is a massive undertaking - easy to do badly, very difficult to do well!

Regarding the lyric track, we have discussed this several times. One problem that exists in the fact that tracks can be zoomed - this would render a lyric track unusable unless under a fixed zoom

I am Interested to hear exactly what people would like to achieve with a lyric track - is it an ideation tool, is it a method of storing the lyrics, is it a timing tool....?

We have had some good ideas, just not managed to wrap up an elegant solution quite yet - its a great user group discussion topic
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operandx
KVRist
 
288 posts since 30 Apr, 2003, from West Dorset, UK

Postby operandx; Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Something like an updated version of haydxn's TrackPad from years back would be good . A VST which can be sized up to large font. TrackPad would change pages by MIDI note maybe a similar utility that changes pages at song position?
'He craved immortality so much, he was prepared to die for it.'
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Stuttaton
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260 posts since 24 Jan, 2004, from Sweden

Postby Stuttaton; Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:13 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

TSC wrote:Creating a scoring app is a massive undertaking - easy to do badly, very difficult to do well!

Regarding the lyric track, we have discussed this several times. One problem that exists in the fact that tracks can be zoomed - this would render a lyric track unusable unless under a fixed zoom

I am Interested to hear exactly what people would like to achieve with a lyric track - is it an ideation tool, is it a method of storing the lyrics, is it a timing tool....?

We have had some good ideas, just not managed to wrap up an elegant solution quite yet - its a great user group discussion topic

For me it would be a song writing tool. To make the music fit the lyrics or the other way around.
Zooming would not really be a problem. You just have to zoom in enough to make the lyrics readeble while you are working on the lyrics or composing the vocal melody. When recording instrument tracks etc, you usually don't need to see the lyrics.
With the chord track and generators, Waveform is such a wonderful song writing tool and a lyrics tool would be the last missing piece.
MBO
KVRist
 
38 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:42 pm Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

TSC wrote:I am Interested to hear exactly what people would like to achieve with a lyric track - is it an ideation tool, is it a method of storing the lyrics, is it a timing tool....?


All of these ideas are valid.

Some suggestions:
1) Separate lyric track - words/syllables can be anchored in the time points (there can be a grid, like in MIDI editor, so words/syllables can start/end at certain points/beats.
2) Separate lyric clips - as above but lyric is placed in a lyric clip, so one can have many lyric clips.
3) Lyric assigned to an existing audio or midi clip - words/syllables could be attached to the notes/grid points, it would be convenient for arranging vocal lines.

I think zooming is not a problem - when zoom causes that lyrics are unreadable (too small), line or dots can be drawn instead for info purposes (that lyric is on the track). If one needs to read such zoomed out lyric, then should zoom in or click somewhere to have lyric in a separate lyric panel where it could be displayed as plain text.
fedexnman
KVRAF
 
2333 posts since 3 Jan, 2005

Postby fedexnman; Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:07 pm Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

A lyric track would only be good if it has a bouncy ball that goes word to word .... You know like Karaoke . .. :hihi:
Trancit
KVRAF
 
1659 posts since 26 Jul, 2004

Postby Trancit; Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:11 pm Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Stuttaton wrote:Before a score feature, I would like to see a lyrics feature. ...


Before a score and a lyrics feature I would like to see some improvements about bugs and inconsistencies all over the complete programm...

I don´t want to disrespect these FR´s, but I think, there are still too many things to adress, which are helpful/ needed for all users before talking about such specialized jobs...

No offense... :hug:
PierreG
KVRist
 
155 posts since 23 Sep, 2005

Postby PierreG; Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:46 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Before a score and a lyrics feature I would like to see some improvements about bugs and inconsistencies all over the complete programm...

I don´t want to disrespect these FR´s, but I think, there are still too many things to adress, which are helpful/ needed for all users before talking about such specialized jobs...


I wholeheartedly agree with this!

I'm going to mention this FR as often as it takes to get it on the list of W10 BASIC features:

Group Editing.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=494818&hilit=group+editing+group+editing

Group :hug:
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Stuttaton
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260 posts since 24 Jan, 2004, from Sweden

Postby Stuttaton; Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

MBO wrote:
TSC wrote:I am Interested to hear exactly what people would like to achieve with a lyric track - is it an ideation tool, is it a method of storing the lyrics, is it a timing tool....?


All of these ideas are valid.

Some suggestions:
1) Separate lyric track - words/syllables can be anchored in the time points (there can be a grid, like in MIDI editor, so words/syllables can start/end at certain points/beats.
2) Separate lyric clips - as above but lyric is placed in a lyric clip, so one can have many lyric clips.
3) Lyric assigned to an existing audio or midi clip - words/syllables could be attached to the notes/grid points, it would be convenient for arranging vocal lines.

I think zooming is not a problem - when zoom causes that lyrics are unreadable (too small), line or dots can be drawn instead for info purposes (that lyric is on the track). If one needs to read such zoomed out lyric, then should zoom in or click somewhere to have lyric in a separate lyric panel where it could be displayed as plain text.


The above basically sums up my wishes as well.
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Stuttaton
KVRist
 
260 posts since 24 Jan, 2004, from Sweden

Postby Stuttaton; Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:29 am Re: Making a case for a score editor add - on for Waveform

Trancit wrote:
Stuttaton wrote:Before a score feature, I would like to see a lyrics feature. ...


Before a score and a lyrics feature I would like to see some improvements about bugs and inconsistencies all over the complete programm...

I don´t want to disrespect these FR´s, but I think, there are still too many things to adress, which are helpful/ needed for all users before talking about such specialized jobs...

No offense... :hug:


No offense, but for many of us, there are currently no serious bugs. Not everyone has a need to use exotic plugins or super-advanced features. Today, I have used the program all day and just encountered a very minor niggle.
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