What is the problem with the reputation of SynthEdit?

[xoxos]

Anyway, I am not saying that ________, all I am saying is that _______

What I am also saying is that _______

yes i notice you say a lot of things.



native SE sawtooth with gibbs smoothing. those regularly spaced spiky things are harmonics i'm not sure where the 'metal' is on that. my observation is that jeff's using BLIT with linear interpolation (a few years ago i probably could have correctly gauged the size of the table). i like my blit tables closer together and a sharper gibbs dropoff, which is besides the point.

what you are failing to appreciate in your eagerness to demonstrate your powers of discernment is that SE is a modular and multipurpose environment, which makes the BLIT (bandlimited interpolated tables, not the bandlimited impulse train BLIT) a very good choice, exhibiting fair audio fidelity and low cpu. jeff was probably thinking of the little people you aren't, who want to experiment or use SE for the same things people use PD for (eg. god knows what, but probably not dick measuring the purity of a basic oscillator). you can run dozens of these oscillators on a pc that's old enough to get a driver's license.

an impulse train BLIT or MinBLEP would have a lower noise floor, but the cpu of these methods is several times higher. i'll venture jeff left it at one oscillator type for a few reasons... (1) SE is overtly user expandable (2) dude has stated he had an ulterior motive of luring people into c++ programming via SE and the SDK (3) n00bs would be all "WTF?!?!?!" when confronted with multiple osc choices (4) and maybe he figured the noise floor was good enough for practical purposes (which used to not include dsp snobbery at kvr, but maybe that's all that's left in the world, i don't keep up).

do i work for synthedit? i work for people who can use synthedit. it's a tough job because people keep dumping this ignorant dismissive bullshit in threads, dude. hating on shit they don't even know about like a punk.

[xoxos]

although you probably decided bitching about osc quality would be a significant contribution to society as inspiration for devs to aspire to please a world full of vomiting crybabies.

[fluffy_little_something]

Why don't you come back when your period is over Why am I even wasting my time on rude people like you?

What matters to me is that the sound of most SE synths is utterly insufficient for me. I don't know whose fault that is, and I don't care. What matters to me is the result, and that is usually not good enough, period.
Nor do I understand why you waste so much time writing all that. I have said myself that there are a very few good-sounding SE synths out there, so obviously I have left the door open that it might be mostly about developers' lack of skills.
You didn't mention five great-sounding SE synths I asked you for.

[breakmixer]

You didn't mention five great-sounding SE synths I asked you for.

I can...

OP-X
OP-X Pro
OP-X Pro II
OP-X Player
OP-X Free

[fluffy_little_something]

Hehe
Actually there is a decent, more affordable version of the OP-X for the poor, Zeus6. I think it is one of the better SE synths It also allows you to control each voice and has a nice overall sound.

[xoxos]

Why don't you come back when your period is over Why am I even wasting my time on rude people like you?

rude is if we took your remarks about SE and made them about something *you* care about, like your face.

this is a public forum. you are publishing a "sentiment" "informed" by your narrow self interest. that's presumptuous and inconsiderate..

look at the picture again.

see the harmonics?

see the aliasing/noise floor?

talk in real terms instead of plastering the topic with useless dismissive language. nobody cares if you want to contemplate how metal, pineapple, or juicy fruit an oscillator sounds to you.



instead of acting like a turd, you could instead appreciate that i have elicited some of the useful criteria for evaluating oscillators. i hope i've been rude enough for you to remember this shit.

[fluffy_little_something]

You can repeat your nonsense as often as you wish, most SE effects sound like crap, just like most SE synths, ears don't lie...

[xoxos]

You didn't mention five great-sounding SE synths I asked you for.

if you read carefully, you may have noticed that i've coded oscillators. an impulse train osc (iirc this needs to be coded in double floats to perform satisfactorily) can render harmonics to nyquist with a noisefloor sufficient for medical applications. so can the array based BLIT method.

both methods have deficits in application, both methods can produce as perfect an oscillator as is possible with a soundcard.

see? you're not listening. you think you're listening, but you're not. all you're intending to do is awe others with how fantastic your discretion is.. and you call me rude.

now, if you'll get over your hurt feelings and appreciate that i have absolutely no concern for my reputation and continue to learn from me, these different oscillator methods have plusses and minuses. impulse train oscs have dc offset issues (which may be desirable considering analog emulation).

what sounds great? great is entirely subjective. being articulate may be a way to get to "great", and being articulate means having an appreciation for the facets of various methods.

you can throw a lump of shit against a wall and it may be the best sound for the application. i guess five "great" synths would be five different synths. the thing is, dude, my picks wouldn't have a pecking order.

i've thrown my shit against your wall, i hope some of it sticks. browse the dsp forum here now and then and you may discover that some primitive methods have interesting features well suited for some applications. then we can all be together and appreciate each other instead of living in a stupid competitive paradigm of "best".

signed,
your evil enemy of course because i always work hard to make sure my enemies are well informed instead of misinformed and misinforming.

[xoxos]

You can repeat your nonsense as often as you wish, most SE effects sound like crap, just like most SE synths, ears don't lie...

what you are saying still doesn't matter.

most statements made with language are crap.

but we don't spend any energy posting about the merit of language, because we appreciate application.

[xoxos]

ears don't lie...

really?



i think we can direct you to a couple thousand academic studies about indicate that perception can be woefully swayed from objectivity

[xoxos]

..but i'm glad we could clear up the matter of who is being rude.

[whyterabbyt]

ears don't lie...

...and that there invalidates your credibility regarding this stuff...

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't care what you code. I don't know your stuff, I had clicked on your link yesterday, but your site is so uninviting that I closed it right away.
Anyway, for whatever reason most SE stuff sounds poor, and it is by far not subjective. Just like beauty in people is not subjective, although some naive people would like to have it that way.
There is no problem with SE stuff not sounding great, the average SE stuff to play around with and good software for pros...

[fluffy_little_something]

ears don't lie...

...and that there invalidates your credibility regarding this stuff...

I don't think so, I am just being realistic. I don't have anything to loose or gain in this discussion as I use whatever sounds good, be it SE or native code. I don't have to defend either side, I just summarize my experiences so far...

[faun2500]

OK, so there is nothing inferior with it sonically?

No.

The notion that SE plugins are somehow inferior only because they are made with SE is complete rubbish and only exists in the mind of some people - probably the same people who think that a free plugin must be inferior to commercial plugins only because its author does not want any money from you.


What is causing such nonsensical ideas should be obvious too. Bling-factor, peer-pressure, parroting due to not knowing better whilst not giving a damn about whether the repeated info is actually correct, these things are directly responsible for a lot of what is going on in the virtual gear realm. And nobody needs a degree in psychology to see that either. No bling-factor = no 'coolness' factor = dismissed no matter how good it may actually sound. Peer-pressure = millions of flies eat sh*t and they cant all be wrong. Ergo if everyone says that X stinks and Y is the best thing since sliced bread then it has to be true, ergo i better go with the flow or i risk becoming a societal outsider, or worse, being labeled a wierdo. Parroting = i have read it on the internet so now im informed. I have never actually bothered to check out whether the things that im repeating are actually correct, still i am qualified to state those things as facts because after all thats how theyre written in the forums.


Well, you get the picture. How far such self-deception can go with some people can be shown by using Elektrostudio as an example. As probably everyone knows, Robert uses SynthEdit to make his synths. This is, at least to some folks, generally bad - so bad in fact that they wouldnt touch a 'normal' SE plugin, i.e. one that uses stock oscs and filters, with a 10 feet pole. They do, however, like Roberts synths because Robert uses 'custom modules'. This is what makes Roberts synths 'different'. And this 'difference' is why they like Roberts SE plugins but not other SE plugins. The problem: None of Roberts custom modules appear to be oscillators or filters. On the contrary, if you check the module descriptions in the SEM files you will find that all of the ELSTUNxx modules exported by the DLL appear to be UI stuff, MIDI processing, animations, that sort of thing. In other words not related to sound generation AT ALL.

Talk about the powers of the psyche...

Nail - Head!