What is the problem with the reputation of SynthEdit?

[whyterabbyt]

I don't think a synth like Diva can be done in SE

It can, with custom modules (= direct C++ programming).

Well, yes, but that is not what this thread is about.Of course you can code all kinds of modules yourself, but then it ceases to be a pure SE synth. I don't have the numbers, but I assume the vast majority of people making SE stuff do not know how to program in C++ or any other relevant programming language.

ah, trying to move the goalposts, even though the position of them in this thread regarding custom modules was fixed long before you tried it...

[WOK]

Anyway, I am not saying that SE stuff cannot sound good, all I am saying is that about 90+% of SE synths are not good enough for professional applications, some are more like toys in my view. As I said before there are exceptions, no doubt, but the mass determines the reputation of SE, not the exceptions.

So this would also be not good enough for your "professional applications"?
or this?

 
 

[antto]

I don't think a synth like Diva can be done in SE

It can, with custom modules (= direct C++ programming).

Well, yes, but that is not what this thread is about. Of course you can code all kinds of modules yourself, but then it ceases to be a pure SE synth. I don't have the numbers, but I assume the vast majority of people making SE stuff do not know how to program in C++ or any other relevant programming language.

my whole point was, that SE blurs the line between "easy" visual design (aka what you call "pure SE" i guess) and real code (aka C++ )

it's easier to learn the SE SDK compared to the VST SDK, trust me
and you can concentrate only on the "module" you need, like a specific oscillator module, or specific data manipulation module, or graphical display
you can also code a whole synth as a single module if you want, and not bother coding GUI (cuz that's no fun)

[fluffy_little_something]

mention five great-sounding SE synths

Krakli StringZ2

Krakli RMXL

SonicProjects OP-X

Xoxos Radian (plus many more)

Memorymoon ME80

UgoAudio String Theory

UgoAudio M-Theory

UgoAudio Ironhead

AlgoMusic M51 Galaxy

....etc



ahh sorry you wanted only 5!

I tried something from Krakli in the past, wasn't overly impressed.
The OP-X sounds very good, but it includes a lot of native programming afaik.
Memorymoon ME80 has some nice sounds, I have that synth (plus the other two of that series), but it has crashed my DAW more than once. It feels heavy and immature to me.
Will look into that UgoAudio stuff tomorrow

Just tried the Elektrostudio, sorry, but it is just no match for Tal synths. Plus, the user interface sucks, way too small. That happens with so many SE synths, they have those giant virtual keyboards that consume almost half the available space of the plugin while the controls and labels are too tiny.

[himalaya]

can i just interject with a calming "ommm"?
carry on...

Please do. And we could even use Pling2 (Xoxos' synth edit creation) to synthesise it.

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't think a synth like Diva can be done in SE

It can, with custom modules (= direct C++ programming).

Well, yes, but that is not what this thread is about.Of course you can code all kinds of modules yourself, but then it ceases to be a pure SE synth. I don't have the numbers, but I assume the vast majority of people making SE stuff do not know how to program in C++ or any other relevant programming language.

ah, trying to move the goalposts, even though the position of them in this thread regarding custom modules was fixed long before you tried it...

There is no need to move the goalposts. When a developer codes himself, of course the result will be better. Why else would they make the effort if they could just as well use stock SE components?! But to me such a hybrid synth is not a SE synth anymore.
I am talking about synths made from standard SE components (which is the vast majority as most developers don't know how to program themselves).

[fluffy_little_something]

Anyway, I am not saying that SE stuff cannot sound good, all I am saying is that about 90+% of SE synths are not good enough for professional applications, some are more like toys in my view. As I said before there are exceptions, no doubt, but the mass determines the reputation of SE, not the exceptions.

So this would also be not good enough for your "professional applications"?
or this?

 
 

I don't know, never tried it. But with hardware, especially from a renowned manufacturer such as Korg, I don't expect anything but good instruments, even if they are basic.

[fluffy_little_something]

fluffy....you seem to have hearing issues somewhat.

There is no way to objectively prove your dubious point..just accept the 'uniqueness' of your position and leave it be.

Yes, maybe my hearing is too good
Nor is my position unique, there are many people who think the way I do. Why do you think pros buy Diva etc., if some SE freeware or donationware worked just as well? Not least because with U-he, Cakewalk etc. people know what they get, they don't have to test all kinds of stuff just to find the needle in the haystack.

[WOK]

sound example 1a/1b
http://www.service-1.de/music/examples/moogtest.mp3


sound example 2a/2b
http://www.service-1.de/music/examples/moogtest2.mp3


Two examples each with an a/b compare.
Each contains an original Moog Synth and a Synthedit creation with SE's standard OSC and some other modules (no C++ from me).
Which of a/b is what?


 

[whyterabbyt]

There is no need to move the goalposts.

No there isnt, but you were trying anyway. The fact that SE can use custom modules has been mentioned from the start and here's you trying to pretend that that's not part of what the thread is about.

When a developer codes himself, of course the result will be better.

says who? there's no reason why any random developer making a custom module is automatically going to be better at it than Jeff, a developer with ten years audio programming experience.

Why else would they make the effort if they could just as well use stock SE components?!

Are you asking that because you're incapable of thinking of any reasons, or because you're trying to posit a false conclusion.

But to me that such a hybrid synth is not a SE synth anymore.

That's nice. Its total bullshit though. And pretty much that goalpost-moving thing again. In fact I doubt for a second you would have the slightest clue as to which SE synths do or dont rely on custom modules for their sound without actually looking.

I am talking about synths made from standard SE components (which is the vast majority as most developers don't know how to program themselves).

And those standard SE components are still native code, ultimately written and implemented no differently from any custom module.

You're just relying on one fallacious argument after another.

[himalaya]

I tried something from Krakli in the past, wasn't overly impressed.

Krakli's StringZ2 can make some incredibly 'liquid' and multi-dimensional sounds:
StringZ2 sound

[whyterabbyt]

Yes, maybe my hearing is too good

No, you're just exceptionally prone to confirmation bias.

Nor is my position unique, there are many people who think the way I do.

So? There are many people who think Macdonalds burgers taste good.

Why do you think pros buy Diva etc., if some SE freeware or donationware worked just as well?

There are all sorts of reasons, so your inference that they're doing so on the basis you're trying to assert is purely fallacioius.

Not least because with U-he, Cakewalk etc. people know what they get, they don't have to test all kinds of stuff just to find the needle in the haystack.

I suppose we can just attribute the fact that you're unaware of people actually testing all kinds of native stuff to pure ignorance.

You're still relying on one fallacious argument after another.

[fluffy_little_something]

sound example 1a/1b
http://www.service-1.de/music/examples/moogtest.mp3


sound example 2a/2b
http://www.service-1.de/music/examples/moogtest2.mp3


Two examples each with an a/b compare.
Each contains an original Moog Synth and a Synthedit creation with SE's standard OSC and some other modules (no C++ from me).
Which of a/b is what?


 

That's a nonsense question.
1. You can post anything here claiming this and that without people being able to know what you actually posted.
2. It is just one primitive isolated note. Let me play chords with certain filter settings and I will tell you which is which.

By the way, why would YOU even assume I am saying a SE synth cannot sound good? I paid about 60 Euros for your SE synths. Do you think I would waste that kind of money if I thought I got crap in return?

[fluffy_little_something]

@whyterabbyt

I did not read all of this thread. Thus I am not aware of any agreement in this thread that people consider products such as OB-X SE synths. If they do this whole thread is somehow obsolete as OB-X and similar products have a very good reputation. If they don't, than what is left is what I am talking about, the deluge of, at best, mediocre SE plugins...

[whyterabbyt]

what is left is what I am talking about, the inundation of, at best, mediocre SE plugins...

you'd be better off worrying about the inundation of, at best, mediocre, music. irrespective of the tools used. worry less about those tools and more about the ideas and hopefully you wont contribute to that too much.