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Halonmusic
KVRian
 
570 posts since 13 Nov, 2015, from Norway

Postby Halonmusic; Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:51 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

Awesome news!
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:18 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

I will probably add a download link on my site, it will concern a zip containing versions of the Kx-PolyM-CSE which will only serve to check bugs, especially do not use them in place of the official beta releases because these VST for the Tests will have a provisional index.
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:26 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

@.jon
I added the link to another beta versions to verify if your x16 bug exists with them.

it concerns a zip containing 2 temporary versions of the Kx-PolyM-CSE which will only serve to check bugs, especially do not use them in place of the official beta because these VST have a provisional index.
http://kx77free.free.fr/data/KX-POLYM-CSE-FOR-TESTS-ONLY.zip
RPH
KVRian
 
1002 posts since 20 Nov, 2005, from The Netherlands

Postby RPH; Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:55 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

Hi Xavier,

The 6 seconds loading time doesn't seem much to me, e.g. Omnisphere 2 also has the same loading time.
I have a Intel Core i5 6600k, your plugin (debug 355 Kx PolyM CSE) uses about 8% CPU in FLstudio. Seems OK to me. Stablility seems fine as well, but haven't tried multiple instances yet.

My two cents: remove the waveform display, it's too large and display is slow.

Cheers,

Rob.
User avatar
BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3171 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:20 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

XGmode wrote:My two cents: remove the waveform display, it's too large and display is slow.

Yes. Or make it optional. It can be useful at least to make tests to see if the GPU load decreases by a simple "Hide" (by default or by a small button) of the waveform display.

What to place when it is not visible ? An idea: when it is not visible you could do as made Björn (Full Bucket Music) on Stigma's GUI: put a fake "Warning: to prevent electric shock..." discrete black sticker which not only is useful in that cases but also adds another little piece of fun.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:48 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

XGmode wrote:Hi Xavier,

The 6 seconds loading time doesn't seem much to me, e.g. Omnisphere 2 also has the same loading time.
I have a Intel Core i5 6600k, your plugin (debug 355 Kx PolyM CSE) uses about 8% CPU in FLstudio. Seems OK to me. Stablility seems fine as well, but haven't tried multiple instances yet.

My two cents: remove the waveform display, it's too large and display is slow.




Thanks to share your tests and your focus on the scope.

In reality I have not idea to compare the loading time with other VST3 but in Cubase 8.5 the time to reload the GUI editor is slow for me if I compare with my X86 versions and when I work on large sessions with a lot of instances that perturbs me.
The 6 sec of loading is about the Kx Synth x16 (more 1300 parameters...), the Kx PolyM CSE time loading is around 4 sec but its more than the x86 versions.The x86 V5 loading time is less than 1 sec in x86 bridge of Reaper!

I think that Cubase mixer GUI is really crappy to manage the GUI editor of multiple VST (the mixer is always under the others windows...) but perhaps its me who does not know. I worked with Cubase 5 before and my X86 VST and all was more simple and fluid, no need to have 2 screens to work with many VST but the Cubase 8.5 audio engine is really better.

FL CPU indicator is not very performant to have a real idea of the current CPU use, I prefer to use the Windows task, specially to verify if some of GUI features like the scope add some % if it is on or off. I hope that FL VST wrapper is more efficient that the CPU indicator to show us...

The scope time refresh depends of its buffer and when you set its buffer to 0, it's off (Kx PolyM CSE Kx PolyMod, kx Modulad) or if it is not displayed (Seq panel on or others panels activated).
Following your DAW graphic performances the scope uses some % more this is why I added the possibility to set the scope off.

I did some tests on my laptop:

Asio buffer : 512 spl, 48k, GPU Nvidia Quadro 1000m

Init settings of Kx PolyM CSE :
6 VCOs, 2 VCFs, 4 Poly Egs, 1 LFO, 1 Mono Eg, Fx off.

Betas built with the 1.2355.
Reaper :
Windows task CPU indicator:
0 notes + scope off : 7%
6 notes + scope off : 10% (VST DSP CPU use = 3%)
6 notes + scope default buffer : 11.5%
6 notes + scope buffer max (100ms) : 13%
Mono + seq + scope off : 8.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 1.5%)
Mono + seq + scope buffer max (100ms) : 13% (12% with the debug release based on 1.3098)

FL 12 :
Windows task CPU indicator:
0 notes + scope off : 7%
6 notes + scope off : 13.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 6.5%)
6 notes + scope default buffer : 14.5%
6 notes + scope buffer max (100ms) : 14.5%
Mono + seq + scope off : 10.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 3.5%)
Mono + seq + scope buffer max (100ms) : 15% (13% with the debug release based on 1.3098)

Cubase 8.5.3 :
Windows task CPU indicator:
0 notes + scope off : 6.5%
6 notes + scope off : 11.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 5%)
6 notes + scope default buffer : 13%
6 notes + scope buffer max (100ms) : 14%
Mono + seq + scope off : 9% (VST DSP CPU use = 2.5%)
Mono + seq + scope buffer max (100ms) : 15% (13% with the debug release based on 1.3098)

So in pure CPU performance Reaper is the winner for this test...
This plug-in is optimized, you can decrease the CPU following the elements used, if you use only 2 VCOs, 1 VCF and 2 Egs that will improve the performances.

Note : the GUI editor is more contrasted with the VST built with the 1.3098.
RPH
KVRian
 
1002 posts since 20 Nov, 2005, from The Netherlands

Postby RPH; Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:57 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

kx77free wrote:
FL CPU indicator is not very performant to have a real idea of the current CPU use, I prefer to use the Windows task, specially to verify if some of GUI features like the scope add some % if it is on or off. I hope that FL VST wrapper is more efficient that the CPU indicator to show us...

Init settings of Kx PolyM CSE :
6 VCOs, 2 VCFs, 4 Poly Egs, 1 LFO, 1 Mono Eg, Fx off.

FL 12 :
Windows task CPU indicator:
0 notes + scope off : 7%
6 notes + scope off : 13.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 6.5%)
6 notes + scope default buffer : 14.5%
6 notes + scope buffer max (100ms) : 14.5%
Mono + seq + scope off : 10.5% (VST DSP CPU use = 3.5%)
Mono + seq + scope buffer max (100ms) : 15% (13% with the debug release based on 1.3098)


Ok, I also tested it using Windows task manager.
Used init settings. Asio buffer 512.
Windows 10 ( creators update ), 16GB DDR4, GTX980.

FL 12 :
Windows task CPU indicator:
0 notes + scope off : 0.5 - 1%
6 notes + scope off : 5 - 6%
6 notes + scope default buffer : 6 - 7%
6 notes + scope buffer max (100ms) : 6-7%
Mono + seq + scope off : 2 - 2.5%
Mono + seq + scope buffer max (100ms) : 2.5 - 3.5%

Rough estimate.

Closing and opening the VSTwindow does take a while, but again seen it before.
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:14 pm Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

@.jon
Did you test the debug releases?

I will provably update them after your tests of these ones because I need to test the Midi learn features of the new SE 1.3 and I grouped all SEM in only one SEM (SE+KX).
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Thu May 11, 2017 2:32 pm Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

I added a new version in the zip for tests only.
This one is for test the new DX features to fix the bug on some configurations when the DAW vu-meters are frozen while the mouse is used to modify a parameter, to check the new sem to replace all sem and the Midi Learn.
Also the .jon bug...
VST3 name : debug allinone Kx PolyM CSE

it concerns a zip containing 3 temporary versions of the Kx-PolyM-CSE which will only serve to check bugs, especially do not use them in place of the official beta because these VST have a provisional index.
http://kx77free.free.fr/data/KX-POLYM-C ... S-ONLY.zip
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Sat May 13, 2017 5:10 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

good news:

I deleted the old test versions in the zip for tests only and replaced them by only one.
This one is for test the new DX features to fix the bug on some configurations when the DAW vu-meters are frozen while the mouse is used to modify a parameter, to check the new sem to replace all sem and the Midi Learn.
Also the .jon bug...

last added v2.03:
VST3 name : debug 13109 Kx PolyM CSE
Built with SE 1.3109 engine, all SE and KX77FREE SEM grouped in only one SEM built with SDK3 of SE 1.3109 (MSV 2015)

Slow loading time of GUI editor: fixed or very improved.
Slow GUI refresh when mouse held: fixed.
Cubase font bug with old Intel GPU: fixed but bad gamma values (to do).
Improved Midi Learn features but not fixed.

it concerns a zip containing one temporary version of the Kx-PolyM-CSE which will only serve to check bugs, especially do not use it in place of the official beta because this VST have a provisional index.
http://kx77free.free.fr/data/KX-POLYM-C ... S-ONLY.zip

So I will start to compile all my main VST with the last SE versions and to compile also my C++ code with the last SDK3.

Xavier
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:56 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

11/06/2017 - Update of main x64 plug-ins (beta - VST3 - VST2):
Kx Synth x16 6.03 / Kx PolyM CSE 2.03 / Kx PolyMod 2.03 / Kx Modulad 4.03

One track added: "Electronic Music Fondation - Into the limbo", Cubase session in 96k, 9 instances of x64 VST3, encoded in WMA 24 bit/48k.

Improvements:
- Midi learn.
- XML presets.
- DAW show parameters in correct order.
- Sliders: 2 or 3 significant digits after point (Kx Synth x16 and Kx Modulad).
- Skins adapted to new SE directx gamma blending feature.
Following your driver the GPU Intel HD 4000 is not supported yet (current debug work).
Fixed bugs:
- VSTHost 1.56 works fine now with all parameters.
- GUI editor loading time too long.
- Frozen GUI DAW while mouse held.

Recommended Reaper VST settings:
With small Asio buffers if you experimented Reaper bugs when you reloaded a session without to close Reaper before.
To fix it > Preference > Plug-ins > VST > "Allow complete unload of VST plug-ins" (to clean all current session memory).
If you listen audio "pops" when you edit something on Reaper with Asio4All.
To fix it > FX windows > Compatibility settings > "Save minimal undo steps".
SF2 banks:
Possible ASIO buffer drop-out when loading large SF2 banks (with small buffers),
just avoid to play the session when the bank is loading (to do list).

Installation example:
1- Unzip and copy the VST3 folder in "C:\Programs\Common files\VST3".
2- In "Users\"your account"\Documents\VST3 Presets\xavier kalensky\"KX SYNTH X16", you copy all *.vstpreset files provided with the VST3.
3- If your DAW does not support VST3, change the extension of the plugin *.vst3 by *.dll (VST2) and copy the VST2 folder in "C:\Programs\Common files\VST2".
4- Update the database of your DAW by scanning the VST3i plugins.

Note:
"Common Files" is a protected Windows system folder. Your DAW must be in Administrator mode to save the sequencer *.x16 files or your XML presets. If else you must save in your Document folder of your account or in out of protected Windows folders.
Syntilla
KVRist
 
395 posts since 29 Nov, 2012

Postby Syntilla; Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:10 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

kx77free wrote:One track added: "Electronic Music Fondation - Into the limbo", Cubase session in 96k, 9 instances of x64 VST3, encoded in WMA 24 bit/48k.

Thank you.
Your recent recordings really ought to be on vinyl!
When I first downloaded 'Laurie and me' (March?) I played it over and over - the way I used to listen to a new album when I was a teenager (early '70s). I was listening to it again - along with 'Krafty 2017' - only last night. On first hearing (OK, let's be honest - third hearing) 'Into the limbo' is a very worthy addition to the canon.

It's really frustrating that I'm unable to help with the beta-testing, but I'm still on 32-bit machines (and will continue to run a 32-bit DAW even when I do eventually upgrade the hardware).
I'm amazed how few people seem to be getting involved, though. (Perhaps there are many more 'behind the scenes' I don't know about?) These are top-of-the-range instruments (at any price) - I would have thought members would be falling over themselves to try them out.
Kudos to those who are contributing, though. I'm more than happy with the current 32-bit versions - but there are many, many people out there who will benefit immensely from your efforts.
None of the really dumb people I knew when I was young are young any more.
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:49 am Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

Syntilla wrote:Thank you.
Your recent recordings really ought to be on vinyl!
When I first downloaded 'Laurie and me' (March?) I played it over and over - the way I used to listen to a new album when I was a teenager (early '70s). I was listening to it again - along with 'Krafty 2017' - only last night. On first hearing (OK, let's be honest - third hearing) 'Into the limbo' is a very worthy addition to the canon.

It's really frustrating that I'm unable to help with the beta-testing, but I'm still on 32-bit machines (and will continue to run a 32-bit DAW even when I do eventually upgrade the hardware).
I'm amazed how few people seem to be getting involved, though. (Perhaps there are many more 'behind the scenes' I don't know about?).


Thanks Syntilla.
"Laurie and me" is a track about the 80's and "Into the limbo" is really experimental, like Yves Tanguy pictures.
There are only few people who help Jeff to debug SE, generally they are on the SE yahoo forum and I'm one of the main SE beta tester because I work with this great application since 2002 and I compile my own SEM in c++ to test the last SE SDK. Generally the beta testing is too complex for the majority of end users.
But I want just some returns about the graphic cards used and finally I believe there are nobody really serious on KVR, only few, a mass of people who want all without any effort.

Xavier
Syntilla
KVRist
 
395 posts since 29 Nov, 2012

Postby Syntilla; Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:14 pm Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

kx77free wrote: "Into the limbo" is really experimental, like Yves Tanguy pictures.


Ah - maybe that's why I like it!
At university, rather than the usual Che or Marley posters, I had Dali and Magritte on my walls ...
And some of the early KS album covers (74/75?) were pretty surreal - probably what drew me to them in the first place.
(Didn't Froese have some connection with Dali, too?)

With all the fuss about 64-bit, it's only just occurred to me: will you continue to support 32-bit?
Are the new versions of SE even compatible with 32-bit?
A recent SE synth I tried - I can't remember which one - built with SE 1.2xx worked fine in VSTHost & SAVIHost on Vista, but not on XP.
Of course, not even Microsoft support those two OSs any more, so it might be too much to expect SE to do so.
And I'm more than happy with the current versions of your synths - though if you make any brand new instruments ... Ah, well - I guess I'll have to upgrade at some point anyway.
None of the really dumb people I knew when I was young are young any more.
kx77free
KVRian
 
602 posts since 19 Jul, 2005, from Paris

Postby kx77free; Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:41 pm Re: Beta testing of X64 VST3/VST2 KX77FREE plug-ins

Syntilla wrote:With all the fuss about 64-bit, it's only just occurred to me: will you continue to support 32-bit?
Are the new versions of SE even compatible with 32-bit?
A recent SE synth I tried - I can't remember which one - built with SE 1.2xx worked fine in VSTHost & SAVIHost on Vista, but not on XP.


Yes I will continuous to support 32 bit but the priority it's to finish the SE x64 debug work on Windows and after I will adapt the actual 32 bit versions to SE 1.2 or 1.3.
Actually I can work a project on SE 1.1 (compatible with all 32 bit Windows) and migrate it to SE 1.2 or 1.3 in 64 bit with little modifications because the SDK3 DSP code is close between all SE versions but I need to adapt the graphic code, I must do that for the KxWaveTracer panel of Kx-Modulad.
And next step , I will work on new projects. I'm patient, step by step it's the unique way to work seriously.
By definition the modular synthesis is universal, we can reproduce a lot of type of instruments with a good modular or semi modular synth. It's not necessary to build a synth for a special use.
Just do a good multi purpose modular synth.

The Kx Synth X16 is a good example what we can do with c++, SE and a regular amount of work. I started this project in 2008 with SE 1.0 in 32 bit on XP and now I'm on Win10 in x64.
My VST use few CPU because SE engine has been conceived for little configurations of last decade but now its new engine is compiled with the last MS compiler fully optimized for the recent CPUs and x64 OS. With its SDK3 you can compile your own c++ code, you can group all your dlls and your code is running like a native VST.

Personally I consider for running VST VA 64 bit is more a marketing argument than a real audio improvement (the code is the same) but the end of 32 OS is close to be the next years and I must preserve all my works with SE since 2002.
Of course you can keep a safe music computer with no internet connections but it's fragile if you must do a maintenance with new components.
I done "Laurie and me" on my Vista 32 bit computer with Cubase 8.5.2 but I must update it because its hard disk count 11000 hrs (since 2008).

Xavier
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