License model no way !!!

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Only free updates for 12 months and then ANOTHER 159 EUR?! This is how you kill a community.

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LAMeduck wrote:Only free updates for 12 months and then ANOTHER 159 EUR?! This is how you kill a community.
Yup
It will not boost sales at all.
It's more like a boogieman.

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dom@bitwig wrote:
lataille wrote:This is just ridiculous though, honestly.
With as much time as I've invested into this program, I never would have even considered it to begin with if I knew there was going to be a yearly fee slapped onto it. I can't even begin to describe how stupid of an idea this is.
It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom
I actually kinda like this approach. Fair and gives us a lot of freedom. Reminds me of how Propellerhead's Reason upgrade pricing ends up working for me, though their's is based on major upgrade releases.

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I have no problem with it whatsoever. Another piece of software I rely on (Intellij Idea) made exactly the same change. If Bitwig can keep a similar pace of updates then I'll be happy.

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It is even more fair and transparent compared to us deciding "Ok, now we call it version 3 and make you pay" without you knowing how long the life cycle of version 2 will be. In that case you would not even know how long you will get updates for your 2.0 investment.

This new model enables us to completely forget about those things and just machine gun out features as we go. We thought a lot about it and decided to do that brave step as we think it is the best for both sides.

Cheers,
Dom

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So you must pay 379€ to buy Bigwig 2 and every year 160€ to get all updates?
It seems it's more expensive as Cubase (I paid 99€ in 2016, 50€ in 2015, 99€ in 2014,... for a major upgrade, bug fixing and small improvements are always free).

With my last test Bigwig was full of bugs and missing features, so I don't know if this new model will help to have more sales.

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Brave step or foolish! Yet to be seen

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dom@bitwig wrote: It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom
I understand what you meant, I'm just wholeheartedly disagreeing with it.
You guys have broken so many promises for V1, early adopters like me were essentially paying to beta test your software. and now you're overcharging us for an upgrade that shouldn't be 2.0. I can't even Dom :bang:

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This is why affinity photo is killing photoshop. Please Bitwig don't go adobe!!!

Sad news.

I bet it's Trumps idea! ,)

2.0 looks lovely by the way! Good work team wig!

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I think one issue people have with this is now the uncertain future all based on when they bought in. So it was originally said the modular system was coming in 2.0. So most people were assuming that they could buy into a 2.0 upgrade and then they would get the modular system either on 2.0 release, or whenever it happened to appear between 2.0 and 3.0.

However now they must maintain a subscription. What happens when development and testing runs long and a feature ends up being delayed and pushed out. For example say the modular system hit alot of issues and ended up taking 14months from 2.0 release. Now instead of getting something with their 2.0 release they must keep a subscription up just to get a feature they thought they were getting to begin with

The other issue, as others have brought up, is bug fixes. Things that were inherently wrong in a purchased version that people must now pay to have fixed if the fix doesnt come for more than a year. Since new features will be constantly pushed out now the same thing will be happening with bugs, new features introduce new bugs and its quite possible at some point you end up with a version that may have a bunch of new features but they all introduce a bunch of bugs that you wont get fixed unless you shell out for another year

IMHO those are the 2 main issues with a subscription for updates offering

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This model would be better

For those who have 2.0 should get all bug fixes for free... up till 2.999999999 so they feel 2.0 is -complete-. and if they still get bugs that brake promises they should have a mad 50% off for the upgrade...

.)

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It's not about not getting new features without paying what essentially is a subscription fee, it's about not getting bug fixes.

I was REALLY enthusiastic about Bitwig, I was - sometimes - even forcing myself to keep with it even though things were obviously missing and Ableton would have made a lot more sense.
I didn't post much, but I really kept looking for Bitwig resources every single day for the last 1 or 2 years, devoting a lot of time to learn it inside and out and making plans to become Bitwig Certified Expert one day even though in the country I come from almost nobody heard about Bitwig yet.

I did all of this only because I had faith in you guys and I thought this is the software to support.

I don't make any money on music (and I don't produce much, to be honest) and this pricing IS a lot for me, and I won't be able to justify it anytime soon.
I would have probably stuck with Bitwig 1 if not the fact it still has too many essential features missing - with what seems absolutely no future.

Your pricing is exactly the reason why I'm not using Cubase (ridiculous update prices that I really cannot justify, and Bitwig is on par with it right now). You just did exactly the same thing Waves is doing - and Waves updates are far less essential, not to mention bit updates of their software get released every few years, not every few weeks.

I would be willing to pay this much for an upgrade (even though I did expect around 99€ for existing owners...) if the software had around 2-3 years of lifespan like most DAWs, instead of paid bug fixes after 12 months. Right now you are pretty much asking for almost a 15€ subscription fee paid annually.

I was excited to receive the mail, but turns out it's very sad news indeed!

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dom@bitwig wrote:
lataille wrote:This is just ridiculous though, honestly.
With as much time as I've invested into this program, I never would have even considered it to begin with if I knew there was going to be a yearly fee slapped onto it. I can't even begin to describe how stupid of an idea this is.
It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom
And what happens if my sub expires right before an important bug fix? Am I forced to stay with broken software that is not my fault because I am out of luck and my sub run out days before the bug fix? Thats unless I pay for 12 months in advance just for a bug fix for example? Why not try a month sub model which would let people to opt-in opt-out depending on whats going on and stay tied?
Last edited by sisarii on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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This new model is really bad, I will probably pass on it.

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This will probably have the opposite effect intended... People will wait to update because they are waiting for that next feature (e.g. the promised modularity or network collab) and don't want to waste their "subscription" time. If you are going to offer a subscription model at least offer a monthly sub as well. This will likely push many paying users to warez. You guys really don't respect your early adopters, don't forget that without us your company wouldn't still exist.

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