Bitwig

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:52 pm

shadiradio wrote:
don_looney wrote:write to support again and mention it that they wanted to fix it in 2.2
mybe the lost it
I just heard back and they said it should be just fine, and perhaps I had auto-create fades on splits checked on in prefs. I don't, and we're going in a circle, so I just recorded a video and am sending it to them. We don't even need to go back and forth... they just need to drop in an audio file, cut it, and hear the pops.

https://youtu.be/RZ3Nk_t41ss

Thanks for keeping at it!

putoff · Post by **putoff** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:37 pm

shadiradio wrote:
don_looney wrote:write to support again and mention it that they wanted to fix it in 2.2
mybe the lost it
I just heard back and they said it should be just fine, and perhaps I had auto-create fades on splits checked on in prefs. I don't, and we're going in a circle, so I just recorded a video and am sending it to them. We don't even need to go back and forth... they just need to drop in an audio file, cut it, and hear the pops.

https://youtu.be/RZ3Nk_t41ss

What the hell, that is super weird!

I tried duplicating your test, but had no luck in reproducing any pops or clicks. I used the stock sound called "Cymbal 01 Legend 606 Valve Sonic Overload RAD". You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGc-z0EHQV0

Have you tried a clean install of Bitwig? Another theory - even though you select no fades, it still fades anyways (ie the control panel is not actually applying your settings).

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:11 am

putoff wrote:
shadiradio wrote:
don_looney wrote:write to support again and mention it that they wanted to fix it in 2.2
mybe the lost it
I just heard back and they said it should be just fine, and perhaps I had auto-create fades on splits checked on in prefs. I don't, and we're going in a circle, so I just recorded a video and am sending it to them. We don't even need to go back and forth... they just need to drop in an audio file, cut it, and hear the pops.

https://youtu.be/RZ3Nk_t41ss
What the hell, that is super weird!

I tried duplicating your test, but had no luck in reproducing any pops or clicks.

When I drop in an audio file, and do a bunch of cuts, I get the same results as shadiradio.

I also have auto-create fades turned off.

putoff · Post by **putoff** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:23 am

Strange... Can you give me a sample sound to test on because it seems I cannot create it. You're cutting clips right, not audio events or anything, right?

I got Bitwig recently and have mostly just played around with it, haven't done anything serious, however this deficiency really interests me and I was wondering if I could recreate it.

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:31 am

That was very interesting - thanks for trying. I tried with the same cymbal sample, and couldn't see any clicks in the spectrum, but audio like that has so much high frequency content that it might be masked. *But* that got me thinking - maybe it's sample rate dependent? And sure enough that affects things, so this might be a clue for the devs about what's really going on.

Basically, if I set the sample rate of my audio card to 44.1 or 48, you can really see and hear the clicks if using 96kHz samples, and you can see them but they are not as drastic for 44.1 or 48 kHz samples. However if I use the exact same samples but change my audio settings to 96 kHz, then the clicks are different (nonexistant in the 96 kHz cut samples).

Basically, drop samples onto tracks of different sample rates, cut them up, and change your audio output in prefs to different rates to see and hear the pops. It's much easier to tell with drones or samples that aren't all high frequency.

putoff · Post by **putoff** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:21 am

I'd love to try that but I'm completely lost on finding sample rate and bit depth in BWS. I can find it for recording but not for my project's information in general. I really wish this program had a more intuitive standard windows menu system with file/edit/etc. Hell, even the export menu is bare bones. I'm used to Cakewalk really and all this stuff was upfront.

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:28 am

putoff wrote:I'd love to try that but I'm completely lost on finding sample rate and bit depth in BWS. I can find it for recording but not for my project's information in general. I really wish this program had a more intuitive standard windows menu system with file/edit/etc. Hell, even the export menu is bare bones. I'm used to Cakewalk really and all this stuff was upfront.

It's pretty strange, agreed. You can't set a sample rate per project, just globally in settings > audio. The worst part is you can't set a sample rate when bouncing / rendering (just a bit depth).

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:24 am

I set SR to 44.1 and put a 44.1 audio file in and cut it up and it still had artifacts

JHernandez · Post by **JHernandez** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:24 am

I'm glad to say that when I tried the same, SR @44.1, with a 44.1 audio file I saw and heard nothing of the sort . . .

but then I tried a 48 kHz file in the same 44.1 project and:

split

Split.png

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:41 am

Thanks for testing this out - I sent support another email. Hopefully SR is a clue!

putoff · Post by **putoff** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:49 am

I read your posts on why my test originally failed (file needs to feature little/no high range and it must have a high sample rate). I recreated it with what you said and it this time it did pop and click! And it is definitely a sample rate issue too which is even weirder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2x7r2CwKHg

I'll mail this to Bitwig too. Perhaps a quick how to like I've written below will catch their attention.

Under Bitwig audio settings, use WASAPI in automatic mode OR select an ASIO driver and set it to 44100 sample rate.
Install the Bitwig Sound Effects and Noises package and then locate the sample called "Surge FX LazerShot 10 C.wav".
Resample that file to 96,000 Hz. A free and painless way to do this is to install Foobar2000 and the Free Encoder Pack. There are two resamplers but either one works.
Load the resampled file onto an audio track and use the knife tool to chop it up.
Press play and hear how it now features audible clicks wherever a new clip was created. Exporting the project as is will also export these clicks.

But it gets weirder! Take that same project, change the driver to ASIO, with a sample rate of 96,000 Hz and play again. You're right - no pops at all in playback or the exported file now! HMMMM... seems like a sample rate issue.

If you're not using a clip's exact sample rate in driver settings, it will malfunction. This will be an issue when a project contains multiple sample rate clips because you ca'nt have two different sample rates set at the same time - everything needs to be one consistent rate.

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:55 am

My last reply from support was that this is actually expected behavior because the cuts are not at zero crossings. It took me a couple days to recover falling out of my chair, so I've been drafting my reply:

- Didn't occur in v1
- Zero crossing locations shouldn't matter if you don't move the clip, since making a cut and leaving the clips in place should be identical to not making a cut until they move (literally just a visual line with no sample to sample playback change)
- Sample rate prefs affect it
- I'm collecting examples from other DAWs
- If it's not a bug, that means you can't use the knife tool without fades?

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:56 am

putoff wrote:I'll mail this to Bitwig too.

BTW - thanks for doing the tests and mailing them!

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:37 am

shadiradio wrote:
putoff wrote:I'll mail this to Bitwig too.
BTW - thanks for doing the tests and mailing them!

+1

Hez · Post by **Hez** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:04 am

Yep another +1 for putting the effort in on this one!

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Sample-accurate splits?