Bitwig

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:01 pm

Hi

I'm oscillating between a Maschine Jam and a second-hand Ableton Push 1 for controlling Bitwig.
I watched the videos Jürgen Moßgraber made for his Push4Bitwig script, and it seems pretty powerful, but I couldn't find much information about the Maschine Jam script that comes with Bitwig, so I don't know how Jam compares with Push as a Bitwig controller.
Anybody here that used both of these controllers and would like to share some thoughts and recommendations?

PS: I know Jam doesn't have velocity sensitive pads and Push does, but that's not such a deal breaker for me.

lunardigs · Post by **lunardigs** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:06 pm

Push 1 is really great with Moßgraber's script. I cannot speak for Maschine Jam. Although, without a doubt, Push (1 or 2, I presently have 2 as I just sold 1) works very well. Nearly all the features you might desire in a tactile controller has been designed into Moßgraber's script. Moreover, the Push controllers are very well thought-out devices in their own right.

bM3w · Post by **bM3w** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:17 am

Did you watch this video about Maschine Jam & Bitwig?
https://www.bitwig.com/en/16/Maschine-J ... ation.html

And here's the manual: https://www.native-instruments.com/file ... _12_09.pdf

I just got a Maschine Jam myself a few days ago, but haven't had much time to go deep. So far I only toyed around with some basic controls and it worked pretty well.

ToneCre8 · Post by **ToneCre8** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:52 am

I have both and couldn't imagine being without either. But...Push is much more versatile imo.

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:36 am

bM3w wrote:Did you watch this video about Maschine Jam & Bitwig?
https://www.bitwig.com/en/16/Maschine-J ... ation.html

Yes, I did, but it's so poorly done. More than half of it is just about the Maschine software. He didn't cover a lot of Jam's functionality as a controller for Bitwig.

bM3w wrote:And here's the manual: https://www.native-instruments.com/file ... _12_09.pdf

Thanks for the link!

I have several questions for those of you who use Maschine Jam with Bitwig:
- after pressing the Browser knob, can you browse, select and load plugins and/or presets from the controller? It doesn't say anything about this in the manual. It just says "BROWSE: Opens and closes the Browser window" If you can only open Bitwig's browser but then you have to use the mouse in order to select/load a plugin, then this function is completely useless, imo.
- when you want to record a new clip, can you create this new clip without defining its duration? Like when you pres the little record circle on a new clip and Bitwig records how many bars you want, untill you press stop. From reading the manual I got the impression that using Jam you can create a new clip, but with a fixed duration (like in Maschine) and you can change the duration after that, with the PAT. LENGTH button.
- when you want to mute/solo tracks, do you have to hold the MUTE or SOLO buttons? Can't you just press MUTE/SOLO once to keep the Mute/Solo mode active? If you have to hold the Mute/Solo button when muting/soloing the tracks, that means that you must use both your hands to accomplish this simple task

.
- is there a button on Jam that can show/hide the VST that is loaded on a certain track? Like when you click on this button:

Untitled-1.jpg

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:48 pm

Haven't ever touched a Maschine Jam... but do have a Push 1 and it works very well with Bitwig

Alveek · Post by **Alveek** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:00 pm

1. Browse knob is useless. Just opens and closes browser.
2. yeah, if you press pad on maschine jam it will create 2 bars long clip. then you can extend it with pat lenght. But if you choose a group, then press REC, it will record until you stop. But that works fine only with first clips in a group. Then you need to create a new clip and erase it (Clear) to set a position. and you can to press REC button again.
3. you have to press and hold mute/solo and then choose a group. With Solo button I can do it by one hand from A to H.
4. no buttons to show plugins.

lunardigs · Post by **lunardigs** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:33 pm

Push4Bitwig (Moßgraber's script) provides a good "browse" experience. You can even apply filters like creator, or device type from Push.

The success of these controllers (which ever model it may be) is chiefly about their script. Which is all about their developer(s). Moßgraber has greatly embellished his Push script. Maschine Jam can realize the same level of development if someone(s) has the ambition.

For instance, one could program Jam to use it's virtual faders as "browse" filters. The faders could take on a continuous scroll behavior, where they simply track which direction your finger moves regardless of position along the strip. Then you could scroll the resultant presets with the big continuous knob, hit commit, then Jam goes back to it's last mode.

Push has got a nice screen--certainly Push 2 does; Push 1 is good too, albeit monochrome. Yet, sophisticated and elegant stuff can definitely be pulled off without a screen, while still being manageable and not confusing.

... I wish I had the dev chops

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:10 pm

Alveek wrote:1. Browse knob is useless. Just opens and closes browser.
2. yeah, if you press pad on maschine jam it will create 2 bars long clip. then you can extend it with pat lenght. But if you choose a group, then press REC, it will record until you stop. But that works fine only with first clips in a group. Then you need to create a new clip and erase it (Clear) to set a position. and you can to press REC button again.
3. you have to press and hold mute/solo and then choose a group. With Solo button I can do it by one hand from A to H.
4. no buttons to show plugins.

Thank you very much Alveek!

After reading this, I'm certain I'll go with Push. Those four things are very important to my workflow.

lunardigs wrote:Push4Bitwig (Moßgraber's script) provides a good "browse" experience. You can even apply filters like creator, or device type from Push.

That's awesome!

lunardigs · Post by **lunardigs** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:51 pm

Push4Bitwig also provides show/hide plugin windows, toggle active, expand device parameters, etc.

About Push 1 vs. 2: Push 2 has much more sensitive pads. I quite like them. Yet, Push 1 has a great feel that I somewhat miss. In any case, Push 2 is superior in number of ways and I personally wouldn't trade down or seek a used Push 1 at this point. Another thing to note is the power requirements of 1 vs. 2. Push 1 was entirely usable with a single rail of USB power. Push 2, however, requires more power to light up fully. The good news is that Push 2 comes with a power adapter in the box. This is not to say you can't power up Push 2 with USB alone. Rather, the LEDs behind most of the function buttons are turned off in this mode. There is also the option to use two USB ports for an additional rail of power--at least I think so, as I have yet to try.

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:43 am

lunardigs wrote:Push4Bitwig also provides show/hide plugin windows, toggle active, expand device parameters, etc.

Great! That's what I'm looking for.

lunardigs wrote:About Push 1 vs. 2: Push 2 has much more sensitive pads. I quite like them. Yet, Push 1 has a great feel that I somewhat miss.

I would use the pads mainly for triggering/recording clips, and less for playing instruments, so Push 1 will most probably be enough for my needs.

lunardigs wrote:Another thing to note is the power requirements of 1 vs. 2. Push 1 was entirely usable with a single rail of USB power.

Again, that's great! I prefer the USB-powered controllers.

Thanks for all the info, lunardigs!

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:34 pm

lunardigs wrote:Push4Bitwig (Moßgraber's script) provides a good "browse" experience. You can even apply filters like creator, or device type from Push.

I have one more question regarding browsing with Push in Bitwig: can you also browse for presets? And how about browsing for 3rd-party VST presets? I suppose you can't access 3rd-party VST presets like you do when using Komplete Kontrol, Maschine or Akai VIP, and you have to save each preset as a Bitwig presets (which is a huge PITA), or do you?

lunardigs · Post by **lunardigs** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm

Yes, you can definitely browse presets. Although, to access a 3rd party plugins' presets, the plugin must expose it's presets to the host--which is the proper convention as I understand. U-he plugins, for instance, work great! Even their legacy products are implemented properly with respect to this.

Push4Bitwig reveals eight filters when you hit the "Browse" button (note: a device must be selected first, or freshly added with the "Add Device" button in order to browse). Bitwig offers even more filters in their browse modal, but Push4Bitwig exposes the most useful it would seem. Furthermore, Push4Bitwig's settings allow you to show/hide said filters. In "Browse" mode, the eight filters appear upon Push's screen, in columns, where then you can increment up/down with the screen buttons (tactile buttons above and beneath the screen), or jog quickly with the CC knobs above each column.

It works well and it's convenient. I had Akai VIP at one point and this approximates the browsing experience well enough. It's perfectly adequate if you ask me.

Now, some of my plugins I cannot browse presets, like the OvertoneDSP stuff. Again, this is on the plugin developers. Yet, you can still browse presets created by you and effectively have presets for those plugins. ... Inconvenient, but not painful.

craigtumps · Post by **craigtumps** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:55 am

I nearly bought a Jam but went with Push1. What is great is that the knobs pick up the labels and position of any mapped controls. And if you setup the remotes for plugins it works so well. I have plugins where Im automating 3 or 4 controls at once because its so easy to do with the Push. Couldn't live without it now.
dont forget the Push also has aftertouch on the pads.

A secondhand Push is quite cheap now and the script works perfect so its a no brainer to me.

KTlin · Post by **KTlin** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:06 am

@lunardigs @craigtumps Thanks a lot, guys!

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Maschine Jam or Push 1 for controlling Bitwig