waiting for the machine gun roll out

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Impodiam wrote:When you make people pay for point updates they better be gooooood point updates, especially when other DAWS like FL, Reason, Studio One, Ableton, Logic and today DP even are making quality point updates for free...
How hard is it to understand? By buying - or upgrading - Bitwig, you pay for what's currently there AND get the guarantee that you get all updates within 12 months window for free as well, no matter if it's point update or full fat increase to Bitwig 3.
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digaldeman wrote:I'm not very confident in Bitwig's future. I love Bitwig but I cannot understand how being quiet is helping them make money.
Oh come on, how are they quiet now?
- v2 released in Feb/March
- v2.1 - new devices & stuff - in May
- they've been touring Bitwig around the world: NY, Chicago, Benelux, Seoul, Berlin meetups,
- they've been showcasing it at trade shows: NAMM, Superbooth,
- they've partnered with u-He, hopefully for more than just the cross-sale,

What e.g. Ableton did in that time? Added scripts for 3 MIDI controllers and posted several useless "One more thing" (or whatever it's called) videos on things that are obvious to anyone who's gone through the manual?

Stop with the drama.
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Thank you @antic604 for being a voice of reason in this mad forum.

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terminus_one wrote:Thank you @antic604 for being a voice of reason in this mad forum.
Oh, luckily I'm not alone here :)
It's a really great - and helpful - community!
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antic604 wrote:
digaldeman wrote:I'm not very confident in Bitwig's future. I love Bitwig but I cannot understand how being quiet is helping them make money.
Oh come on, how are they quiet now?
- v2 released in Feb/March
- v2.1 - new devices & stuff - in May
- they've been touring Bitwig around the world: NY, Chicago, Benelux, Seoul, Berlin meetups,
- they've been showcasing it at trade shows: NAMM, Superbooth,
- they've partnered with u-He, hopefully for more than just the cross-sale,

What e.g. Ableton did in that time? Added scripts for 3 MIDI controllers and posted several useless "One more thing" (or whatever it's called) videos on things that are obvious to anyone who's gone through the manual?

Stop with the drama.
I am a big fan of Bitwig as pretty much all of my posts will back up, but claiming the new subscription model was put in to allow faster and more frequent (machine gun) updates and then only releasing one update in seven months was bound to rub a few people the wrong way.

I have to say there was far more frequent updating and communication before the new subscription model, if anything updates have slowed down since the subscription model was introduced (perhaps we were spoilt with all the updates from V1 to V2)

There is still plenty of time for them to drop something really cool, I have 4 months of so called 'subscription left, if they do nothing until March and them update even mild mannered fan boys like me will be ranting :wink:
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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I was kind of whining about this when they announced 2.1 for an expected end of May release, and then did not release it till sometime in June. Then I realized, like others here have pointed out, that when I bought the update I did it with the knowledge that the upgrade from v1 to 2 (and 2.1) already represented great value for money. If I decide that anything else is just a bonus, then I'm far more likely to avoid any disappointment or have too many expectations in future.

Bitwig already does most of what I want it to, is stable, and is already my favourite daw, despite anything else they may or may not add in future. I do feel that this 1-year free update thing has just made things more confusing, and if anything all it does is encourage people to wait for the "right time", so maybe they should just drop it, but apart from that I have no complaints with the 2.1 update so far.

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SLiC wrote:I am a big fan of Bitwig as pretty much all of my posts will back up, but claiming the new subscription model was put in to allow faster and more frequent (machine gun) updates and then only releasing one update in seven months was bound to rub a few people the wrong way.
Look at it this way: Live 9 was introduced in March '13 (4.5 years ago) and along with subsequent updates it brought: 3 new Max4Live devices (so limited to Suite owners), improvements to Simpler, new filter algorithms, meters showing both peak & RMS and Link.

Compare that with 25 modulators, 17 new devices & overhaul to the existing ones, deep hardware integration, VST3 support, etc. in those 7 months and you should feel better :)
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maschinelf wrote:I do feel that this 1-year free update thing has just made things more confusing, and if anything all it does is encourage people to wait for the "right time", so maybe they should just drop it, but apart from that I have no complaints with the 2.1 update so far.
One idea that I had - and it would be kind of novel in terms of licensing scheme - would be a kickstarter for features. Basically, Bitwig would set up a webpage where users could post feature requests, with attached monetary value of said feature for them. Others could add their votes (and value). Once the feature is implemented, the user that posted it and those that voted would be charged for it. Obviously, this would exclude normal bug fixes, that should be free. The only drawback would be some users would refrain from up-voting certain features seeing they're popular anyway and would get them for free, but - personally - I wouldn't mind. If e.g. I got my alias clips for the $50 that they're worth for me I wouldn't mind someone else getting them for free.

This could be really beneficial for both sides, I think. The current system with sending individual support tickets is just messy, although - I can imagine - convenient for Bitwig, i.e. it's difficult to make them accountable for not implementing something. For other DAWs that I use - Live and Studio One - they have a dedicated sites with user requests & number of votes, so at least there's that and you can see certain tickets with huge number of votes (e.g. comping in Live) hanging there for years...
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antic604 wrote:
SLiC wrote:I am a big fan of Bitwig as pretty much all of my posts will back up, but claiming the new subscription model was put in to allow faster and more frequent (machine gun) updates and then only releasing one update in seven months was bound to rub a few people the wrong way.
Look at it this way: Live 9 was introduced in March '13 (4.5 years ago) and along with subsequent updates it brought: 3 new Max4Live devices (so limited to Suite owners), improvements to Simpler, new filter algorithms, meters showing both peak & RMS and Link.

Compare that with 25 modulators, 17 new devices & overhaul to the existing ones, deep hardware integration, VST3 support, etc. in those 7 months and you should feel better :)
I am pretty impartial as I also own Live Suite :wink: Of course all of the updates (including link etc.) have been free for almost 5 years without subscription, so its hard to complain. When live launch '10' as a paid upgrade I guess we can compare that top the BW V2 paid upgrade.

But! The lack of new features that were requested over 3 years ago (on Lives own 'vote a feature up' site!) such as in clip editing are what let me to Bitwig anyway! V2 upgrade was great, no doubt- saying the subscription model was to allow them to roll out important an more frequent updates seems to be the part that it disputed. In clip editing etc may have led me to BW, I suspect its the CV and modulators that will keep me there irrespective of what Live 10 may do (but who know what's coming!)
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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I wonder if the 'entirely new class of modulators' being demoed at Imsta festa - New York - September 23 is the what we got in V2 or something new? https://www.bitwig.com/en/home/news-arc ... ta-NY.html
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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@SLiC - a bit offtopic, but how would you compare sonic quality of live effects to bitwig's? I know it's subjective but I'm just curious

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SLiC wrote:I wonder if the 'entirely new class of modulators' being demoed at Imsta festa - New York - September 23 is the what we got in V2 or something new? https://www.bitwig.com/en/home/news-arc ... ta-NY.html
The wording is similar to how they've described it while launching 2.0, so I wouldn't expect something new there.

What I'd love to see though is a cleanup: we don't need 3 LFOs, 3 envelopes (make one of each with complete feature set), a Select-8 modulator, Steps needs improvement because it glitches & stutters, clearer and unified triggers for the LFO/env/steps (free, transport, event/clip, note/onset) as well as filtering of the source signal options (audio volume/pitch/freq, MIDI parameters) for modulators would be welcome.

I actually liked the elegance and simplicity of 'MOD' devices in 1.x, so something in the middle - less, but more flexible modulators - would be better IMO.
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0degree wrote:@SLiC - a bit offtopic, but how would you compare sonic quality of live effects to bitwig's? I know it's subjective but I'm just curious
For a hobbyist / enthusiast like me, I'd say they're on par - thinking about delay, reverb, EQ, compressor, fliter. On the other hand I think Bitwig's Amp is better than Live's Amp and Cabinet combined, Live doesn't have equivalent to Treemonster, Blur, Ladder (which is awesome!), Diatonic Transposer and some other simpler but very useful stuff like Oscilloscope, Transient Control, Dual Pan. Combine that with modulators and - IMO - Bitwig wins here: you can for example easily do a dynamic EQ (boost/cut happens only after signal passes set threshold), which is impossible in Live's native devices.

Not the case with instruments, though: Analog & Operator are better than Polysynth & FM-4, and when you add Collision, Electric and Tension there's just no contest here.
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Thanks Antic, I always had an impression that Bitwig's devices sound more "neutral" whereas Live's are more "coloured". I'm probably using wrong words to describe it :D Haven't used live for long time tough

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antic604 wrote:
0degree wrote:@SLiC - a bit offtopic, but how would you compare sonic quality of live effects to bitwig's? I know it's subjective but I'm just curious
For a hobbyist / enthusiast like me, I'd say they're on par - thinking about delay, reverb, EQ, compressor, fliter. On the other hand I think Bitwig's Amp is better than Live's Amp and Cabinet combined, Live doesn't have equivalent to Treemonster, Blur, Ladder (which is awesome!), Diatonic Transposer and some other simpler but very useful stuff like Oscilloscope, Transient Control, Dual Pan. Combine that with modulators and - IMO - Bitwig wins here: you can for example easily do a dynamic EQ (boost/cut happens only after signal passes set threshold), which is impossible in Live's native devices.

Not the case with instruments, though: Analog & Operator are better than Polysynth & FM-4, and when you add Collision, Electric and Tension there's just no contest here.
Its worth mentioning that the equivalent product to BWS is really Live Standard (about the same cost, Live Standard 350E Live Suite 600E - almost twice as much) and the instruments mentioned are only in suite. So BWS wins Standard to Standard.

Live Suite instruments developed by 3rd parts (AAS etc) not Abelton, if BWS did the equivalent (with UH-E as rumoured by me ;-)) we would all be saying BWS sounds better!
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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