I found a way to do feedback routings

[Taika-Kim]

It requires beta 4 or 5, don't now remember which. Can't you just drag and drop this to Bitwig?

I've got beta 5... doesn't work for me (on Mac)... Bitwig doesn't see it.

Strange, I have no idea then... They should work like that.

[Whywhy]

Hi Pdxindy,
Do it yourself:

Audio track,
Device: DC offset, add an audio rate modulator.
Add an eq 5 after the dc device.
In the audio rate modulator, set the input to EQ 5 out. Now, with the audio rate modulator, modulate the DC offset to 1.
I suggest to add a lim and a tool gain.
Now, you're ready, try to add some EQ band 2 gain, move the freq and your feedback come to life.

[justin3am]

Neat trick! I was able to set it up myself but I needed an initial impulse to get the feedback going for some reason.
Thanks for sharing!

[Whywhy]

Sometimes, just an eq boost is enough for starting the loop and sometimes I move manually the DC slider, and the loop start.

Justin, I remenber a vid of you making some nice feedback with a mic and a drum module if I remember correctly, we could start speaking in this thread about some cool feedback techniques , sharing some experiences....

[Whywhy]

Thanks Kim for all the great tips & tricks you add , find, to bitwig.
We should start a thread about all bitwig
Modular, synthesis technics, like s&h, quantise, scale, feedback, fm... some basic stuff but essential.

[pdxindy]

Hi Pdxindy,
Do it yourself:

Audio track,
Device: DC offset, add an audio rate modulator.
Add an eq 5 after the dc device.
In the audio rate modulator, set the input to EQ 5 out. Now, with the audio rate modulator, modulate the DC offset to 1.
I suggest to add a lim and a tool gain.
Now, you're ready, try to add some EQ band 2 gain, move the freq and your feedback come to life.

got it working... thanks!

[justin3am]

Sometimes, just an eq boost is enough for starting the loop and sometimes I move manually the DC slider, and the loop start.

Yes, when I say initial impulse, nudging the DC parameter is enough.

Justin, I remenber a vid of you making some nice feedback with a mic and a drum module if I remember correctly, we could start speaking in this thread about some cool feedback techniques , sharing some experiences....

Thanks!

I find that the Polynom modulator is also useful for feedback limiting, using this method. Use the Audio Rate modulator to modulate the 'X' parameter on the Polynom, set the 'X^3' parameter to a negative value and use the Polynom modulator to modulate the DC offset. You can also do some brutal waveshaping this way.
The Math Modulator can also do some interesting things to audio.

Frequency Shifters are, of course, a lot of fun in the feedback loop. You can use FX Layers to make a matrix mixer for some really complex feedback. Bitwig's flexible routing makes for a lot of interesting possibilities.

[Taika-Kim]

I was just today thinking, that I should take the signal out of the computer and then back in the feedback loop. There would still be delay though because of the driver latency.

I have been thinking of getting a new tape machine too, I used to have a Roland RE501 which was possibly one of the coolest pieces of hardware I have owned, but I sold it at one point because I was afraid that it will break and be very expensive to service. (good timing, it did, a few weeks later)
Anyway, I've had my eyes on some 3-head C cassette decks, one would be very nice in the feedback loop. And with adjustable digital delay in the loop, they could be used as a proper echo device.
Also the more middle range reel to reels are practically free, but I have a suspicion that the prices for at least the three-head models (you need the third head to use them as a delay) are going up in the future.

I love feedback, but I never heard a very good digital one.

I recently saw a musical performance where the musician was first presenting some purely digital Pure Data feedback networks, which were kind of bleh. Then he played two microphones and two speakers with an additional digital feedback network in between. It was absolutely amazing! So since that I have been meaning to play around with microphones more, to see if having effects in the loop might allow for something else than just the familiar screeching instant feedback.

[justin3am]

I recently saw a musical performance where the musician was first presenting some purely digital Pure Data feedback networks, which were kind of bleh. Then he played two microphones and two speakers with an additional digital feedback network in between. It was absolutely amazing! So since that I have been meaning to play around with microphones more, to see if having effects in the loop might allow for something else than just the familiar screeching instant feedback.

You might find this interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLCxQETsMM

More info about how it was done here: viewtopic.php?t=499432

Some delay introduced because of latency does not really bother me when creating feedback patches, it's still easy to get interesting results. Getting signals into the acoustic domain (via input/output transducers) or the analog domain, is a lot of fun. That is where all of the interesting non-linearities are. But feedback can be fun in the digital domain as well, I find that the signal path is just a lot more touchy and there is a smaller sweetspot where the feedback starts creating chaotic interactions. Creating multiple feedback paths with different signal processors in each path is the key there.

[Taika-Kim]

That's really cool! There's something weirdly intoxicating about this kind of modular music, I guess precisely because things are not so precisely constructed. Like in the nature it's a lot of things just thrown around in a way, but mostly it makes for a really pleasing impression.

Say no more about transducers



Tomorrow going to record some stuff hopefully... I have two pairs of these that I bought off EBay for something like $25... They have a pretty dull high end though. I have smaller ones with a very bright treble that I dismantled from Whaferdale transducer wall speakers, but they need wiring done... And I'd like one with a good bass too. But from the few experiments I had time to do so far, layering recordings of these on top of in-the-box synth sounds can really lift them since typically VST synth sounds have somehow a very uniform timbre over the spectrum with no really strong formants.

I have a tutorial and some soundclips here:

https://aavepyora.wordpress.com/2016/05 ... l-filters/

[u-u-u]

If looking for a cool approach purely in the digital domain I can recommend to have a look at the C15 synth engine flowchart:
The "Shaper"s in the flowchart have Asymmetry, Fold(back) and Drive Parameters and especially in the feedback path they allow for generating interesting overtones (like overblowing a flute). What's also interesting is, that with the feedback signal you can phase-modulate the (sine) oscillators. Also the fact that you can have the comb filter and the SVF routed into the feedback mixer. In these videos I often make use of the feedback.
One small trick I learned when working with the C15: put a low pass with very high (or simply highest) resonance into the FB path, apply a shaper to that FB signal. Then modulate the Filter Cutoff.
When modulating it slowly, you get some overblowing and detuning effects like in the 'Mammoths' or 'Flute Animals' videos. When modulating the cutoff at audio rate (and also using a comb in the FB path) you can get some very good organic but strong bass and other sounds (like in the 'Dry Synth' video).
Also what cannot be seen in the flowchart is the Allpass filter in the FB path of the comb filter (which is in fact also a delayed feedback). Putting an allpass into the feedback chain introduces frequency-dependent delay to the signal. That can lead to some bell- or wood-like tones with very short FB delay times.
(BTW, is there a simple way to build an allpass filter in Bitwig Studio?)
If you have NI Kontour(Reaktor instrument) already - it's similar to the C15 and also has the feedback mixer routing so let's you experiment with the possibilities. But building the feedback path yourself certainly is more fun

[u-u-u]

Here are two presets (identical but with different parameter values) using the 'Mammoths' effect:

Phase-4 Feedbacks.zip

Make sure to have a look at all preset remote control pages. I tried to put all important parameters there.

[Taika-Kim]

Hey, cool, I was not aware of that synth before! Looks really great, and the rent-to-own scheme sounds sensible. I'll check that preset later, sounds interesting.

[Whywhy]

Really nice vids.u-u-u
Kim, nice site too.

My first contact with feedback synthesis was with a DJ mixer, vestax 05 and a DIY cable for be able to route the headphones output into the mic input, mod the filter, manage the level and make some sounds from nowhere. After that I bought a little ms10 and a nordlead 2.

Recently, I was playing, itb, with solorack, and it's a really nice combination with bitwig, the frequency shifter and the allpass filter have some feedback path, send and receive, and it's a lot of fun.

Justin, the polynom and math module works so well with feedback and with DC, lfo fm too, crazy waveshaping, thanks.

[u-u-u]

Again with Phase-4. Took the inspiration from THIS FORUM POST.

Awesome to create feedback loops all the time.

Just tried something with a button modulator and audie rate feedback to get square waves in the Phase-4. Didn't get square waves yet but really cool chip tune-like sounds
The preset is just showing the approach. I'm sure you can get more out of it