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jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:56 pm Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Greetings and happy new year. My Linnstrument arrived this week and I'm just getting to know it. Of course it works perfectly out of the box with the suggested downloads, and I'm already better at it than I am at keyboards (not saying much, but as a bassist and guitarist the tuning is a tremendous relief).

But of course I want to get it working with my hardware which is where things get a little more complicated.

First up: I'm trying to get it to talk with my modular synth. I watched Geert's demo with the FH-1, but I'm having some trouble getting consistent pitch tracking--especially on pitch bend--and some weird clicks on the note onset. It could be the FH-1; it could be the Linnstrument, so I'm starting here.

I've tried two different reliable oscillators, a temperature-stabilized analog VCO (Atlantis) and a DCO (Braids). I've tried the VCA in the Atlantis and a standalone VCA and the problem is reproducible. Pitch out is to pitch in on the oscillator (no wacky mults or anything), aftertouch/pressure is to the CV in on the VCA.

Linnstrument settings are:

Output on MIDI channel 9, which sends pitch to output 1 and pressure to output 4 like in the video (he didn't mention this setting but it must be what he used, unless there's something I'm not getting)

Pitch bend is set to 24.

The FH-1 is set to the factory default CVs -5 to +5 (jumpers on the back) and otherwise I haven't tried to program it. Latest firmware installed.

Do you have any other suggestions? If there's no success here, I'll try Expert Sleepers support.

Thank you!
Roger_Linn
KVRian
 
851 posts since 8 Jun, 2010

Postby Roger_Linn; Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:09 pm Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Hi jsterne,
I don't know the FH-1 but it's usually a good idea to start by simplifying your setup. If you do a Global Settings > Action column > Reset (press Notes Off + Update OS), all settings will be reset to factory-new status. (Send only over MIDI channel 1, X=Bend at +/-2 semitones bend range, Y=C74, Z=Poly Pressure.)
Then turn off Loudness/Z > On and Timbre/Y > On in Per-Split Settings. Now it should be sending the same thing as a standard MIDI keyboard-- Note On, Note Off and Bend. If it works now, put things back in one at a time until the problem reappears.
I hope this is helpful for you, and happy new year.
jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:02 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Thanks Roger. Unfortuntately, doing this doesn't seem to fix the problem. With the pressure off, I need to run out of the gate output on the FH-1 (since there's no pressure to report) and patch through an envelope. Works like a keyboard then. Turn on pressure sensitivity, and patch like in the video, and the clicks come back on no matter how I set pressure sensitivity on the keyboard. Plus back into my computer, works like it should. If Geert stops by maybe he can say a little more about how he set up the FH-1.

Happy new year, again.
Roger_Linn
KVRian
 
851 posts since 8 Jun, 2010

Postby Roger_Linn; Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:25 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

By “clicks”, I assume you’re using pressure to control VCA level and are hearing quiet jumps in volume, presumably more apparent at quiet volumes / low pressure. It sounds like the FH-1 may not handle LinnStrument’s continuous pressure stream fast enough, or isn’t smoothing the CV output. Does the same problem occur if pressure is sending Channel Pressure or a CC, as opposed to the more dense (during polyphonic play) Poly Pressure stream? And do the clicks go away if you slew the CV to the VCA, assuming you have a way to do that?
jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:38 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Hi Roger,

Wow -- fast support on a holiday! Way above and beyond. Thank you.

I'm guessing you're right that it's not smoothing the output so it's shuttling between open and shut. It's not like the "click" (or thump, depending) you get with a very fast envelope on a VCA triggered from a keyboard or something. It's more like a little blast of static at the beginning and end of a note. Channel pressure rather than poly helps with the attack a bit but not the release. It's less noticeable if I do a sort of slow onset of the note but won't work for staccato playing.

Yes, if I run the channel pressure through an AD envelope or similar it goes away but then of course I'm not controlling it as well. If I use a CC, I have to go in a reprogram the FH-1, which is a whole other can of worms, so I haven't tried that.

I may have guessed wrong about the FH-1 settings Geert was using, but unfortunately, there's no more documentation on his video. There's also been a firmware update since then (and I don't know what firmware he's on) so something might have changed there.

I'm about ready to take this to Expert Sleepers, since I think you've done about all you can do, unless you can think of something else.
Roger_Linn
KVRian
 
851 posts since 8 Jun, 2010

Postby Roger_Linn; Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:56 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

I don’t see how an AD envelope could possibly smooth/slew an analog signal. Do you have any module that can smooth an analog signal? Even a low pass filter should work if it passes DC.
jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:00 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

You can slew with Maths (I maybe wasn't clear about what I was doing), but will try with a filter and report back. http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/m ... al2013.pdf
bfuhrman
KVRer
 
15 posts since 4 Aug, 2015

Postby bfuhrman; Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:16 pm Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Hi jsterne-
When you say you're using the aftertouch output of the Fh-1 to the VCA CV on Atlantis, I'm wondering if that's the issue. According to their manual, Level is 0 to 5 volts, and the output of the FH-1 is -5 to +5. Have you tried the Gate Out of the FH-1 to the Gate In on the Atlantis?

I'm using a Linnstrument with an FH-1 - definitely a complicated setup! My oscillators are a MakeNoise STO and a Klavis Twin Waves, envelopes are Maths and a 2HP ADSR, VCA is an Optomix, so this isn't entirely like your setup. The Linnstrument outputs on Channel 9, with 24 pitch bend, I also made sure I was in One Channel mode as ChPerNote will overload the FH-1. I typically use aftertouch from the FH-1 to control a Disting Mk 4. I also experimented with data reduction (Global Settings, hold MIDI I/O) - full speed seems fine when only using X axis and Gate, increasing to 300 seems to make it respond better when using the Z axis, and over 350 seems to work best when using the Y axis (which seems to be sending the most data, but that could just be my playing technique).

Good luck!
jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:11 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Wow, thanks for the reply bfuhrman. Super helpful. It seems like yours is hooked up more like a regular keyboard. If I use the gate out into the gate in of the ADSR of the Atlantis, no problem, but if you check out Geert's video, he's basically using his finger pressure as an ADSR. If I can't make it work, I can't, but I want to. If I use pressure to control a filter or something that works without the annoy "static-y" sound so it's really a VCA issue, but direct finger-to-volume control is one of the things this can do, so I want to try to get it happening.

I am on single channel.

I'm going to have to read up on data reduction--haven't tried that yet.

BUT, no matter what I do, I'm only getting half step slides with the FH-1, max. What note quantization are you using, and can you get any vibrato?

Again, if I plug into a software instrument on my computer, no problem, so i know it's not the Linnstrument but the relationship between it and the FH-1.

Also, what Firmware version is your FH-1? I'm wondering if there is an issue with the latest update or if Geert's video is done with an earlier firmware. I can always revert to get it working.

Roger: I tried filtering and got the same result as the Maths, especially messing with resonance. It helps, but isn't a perfect solution.

I'm going to write Geert off the site to see if he has any insight into the setup he was showing.

Thank you both!
Roger_Linn
KVRian
 
851 posts since 8 Jun, 2010

Postby Roger_Linn; Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:30 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

A video of the perceived problem would be helpful. I think you're saying that if you use pressure to control VCA level, you hear discrete volume steps while varying the pressure of a very light touch. However, when you use pressure to modulate filter frequency, you don't hear any such problem. If so, the problem seems to be that you are hearing the VCA instantly switching between the discrete pressure levels of the MIDI pressure messages. That's why I suggested smoothing the VCA level from step-to-step, which could be done by running the VCA CV through a lowpass filter (if your lowpass filter passes DC), but the cutoff frequency probably needs to be pretty low. You might contact Expert Sleepers to learn if the FH-1 has a way to smooth the CV signal. Either that or perhaps some module you have does smoothing. Personally, I always use filter frequency to control signal level because it sounds more natural to me.

Regarding your problem with bend range limited to one semitone, then is LinnStrument sending the maximum Bend value? For example, is LinnStrument set to a Bend Range of +/- 24 semitones and you're sliding 24 note pads? If so and FH-1 is set correctly, then you oscillator must be responding with the correct bends. To test this, do the simplified setup I mentioned earlier because problems are always easier to solve if you start by simplifying. Or you can connect a standard MIDI keyboard; does pushing the bend wheel fully forward produce the maximum pitch bend desired?

I'm not sure how tech-savvy you are, so you're welcome to contact me at support@rogerlinndesign.com and we can arrange a video call.
bfuhrman
KVRer
 
15 posts since 4 Aug, 2015

Postby bfuhrman; Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:56 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Hmm... a video would definitely help here, as Roger suggests.

For pitch quantization, I'm alternating between fast and off depending on the patch. Doesn't make a difference in terms of being able to bend or use vibrato. It could be that your FH-1 pitch bend is not set to the same as the Linnstrument. If you check their manual on how to set it, it's under Menu C, setting 1. It sounds like that could be why you're only getting small slides. Also under Menu C, make sure that setting 5 (Device Specific Behavior) is set to 1. I've used Firmware 1.8 and 2.0 with no issues. based on the date of Geert's video, I'm guessing he used 1.3 or higher as that would fit the date and the device specific behavior for the Linnstrument was introduced in that version. He appears to be using an AJH Discrete Transistor Cascaded VCA - just level and CV, so it looks like he's using aftertouch as the envelope directly.

Looking through the Atlantis Manual (since I don't have one), have you tried setting the ADR settings to 0 and Sustain to 100% when using pressure as input for the Envelope Level? It may be an overlap that's causing the disturbance. It could also be an aftertouch off message from the Linnstrument (Roger - is aftertouch continuous or on/off pairs? I'm a state away from my Linnstrument right now and can't test it). You could also try setting ENV/GATE switch on the VCA to GATE and trying it. That might not be 100% what you want, but it could be worth a try.
jsterne
KVRer
 
24 posts since 25 Jul, 2010

Postby jsterne; Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:11 am Re: Setting up Linnstrument for FH-1, possibly for Geert

Thanks bfuhrman, and Roger, as always! I think it's time to start messing with FH-1 settings (heaven help me), and see if that works. Roger: I would happily take you up on a videoconference but let me try this first. It may take me a few days.

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