Linnstrument and focusrite itrack dock
-
- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
LinnStrument's USB port is 100% USB-MIDI class-compliant, requiring no drivers. So there's no reason it shouldn't work. Looking at their site, it looks like they have the equivalent of Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adaptor inside between the the rear panel USB jack and the iPad's Lightning port.
The only thing I'd add is that I think Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adaptor has a chip in the cable that processes the data, but I'm not sure. (Does anyone else know?) If so, then I'd wonder whether Focusrite's equivalent is as fast at keeping up with LinnStrument's high MIDI data rate as the Apple adaptor is.
The only thing I'd add is that I think Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adaptor has a chip in the cable that processes the data, but I'm not sure. (Does anyone else know?) If so, then I'd wonder whether Focusrite's equivalent is as fast at keeping up with LinnStrument's high MIDI data rate as the Apple adaptor is.
-
- KVRAF
- 1551 posts since 2 Apr, 2015
There is some processing in the cable, it's not just straight wiring.
There are other cables now available that work well, and others that don't. You would hope that Focusrite would be in the working camp.
There are other cables now available that work well, and others that don't. You would hope that Focusrite would be in the working camp.
Bitwig, against the constitution.
-
John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
iToo am interested in using my LinnStrument with the iTrack Dock, given that it seems to be the only iPad dock with a USB host port, so I emailed Focusrite support. Here's our exchange:
ME: "I've recently acquired a LinnStrument, by Roger Linn Design, and want to use it to control various iPad synth apps, like AniMoog, which support MPE. As such, I'm wondering if the USB host port on your iTrack Dock is fast enough to keep up with the high MIDI data rate required for MPE control? Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter is fast enough, but I'm looking for a more robust audio interface like your iTrack Dock. Thanks in advance for your time."
THEM: "Thanks for your enquiry and your interest in the iTrack Dock.
I'm afraid that we've not tested a LinnStrument with the iTrack Dock so it's a bit difficult to say whether or not you'd encounter any problems. Assuming that the LinnStrument is a class compliant USB MIDI device then, in theory at least, it should work fine, though since we've not been able to test ourselves we cannot guarantee compatibility.
For reference, we have a list of devices that we have tested with the iTrack Dock on our support page: Which USB MIDI devices can I use with the iTrack Dock?
I'm sorry that I can't give a more definitive answer in this instance, if there's anything else I can do for you then please let me know.
Best Regards,
Jack Cole
Focusrite Technical Support"
I had already seen the list mentioned above, and admittedly was deterred when I saw how many otherwise standard MIDI controllers had been proven incompatible with the iTrack Dock; but then, I didn't check at the time to see how many of those controllers were class compliant. It sounds as though LinnStrument should work, but Focusrite's answer doesn't seem thorough enough. I guess I was expecting them to comment on how fast the port was, and whether or not it should be able to handle the volume of MIDI messages required for MPE. Surely they know what MPE is and what specs it requires, no? Anyway...
Roger, is there anything else I should ask them, something more specific perhaps?
Has anyone else had success using the iTrack Dock with their LinnStrument?
Cheers!
ME: "I've recently acquired a LinnStrument, by Roger Linn Design, and want to use it to control various iPad synth apps, like AniMoog, which support MPE. As such, I'm wondering if the USB host port on your iTrack Dock is fast enough to keep up with the high MIDI data rate required for MPE control? Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter is fast enough, but I'm looking for a more robust audio interface like your iTrack Dock. Thanks in advance for your time."
THEM: "Thanks for your enquiry and your interest in the iTrack Dock.
I'm afraid that we've not tested a LinnStrument with the iTrack Dock so it's a bit difficult to say whether or not you'd encounter any problems. Assuming that the LinnStrument is a class compliant USB MIDI device then, in theory at least, it should work fine, though since we've not been able to test ourselves we cannot guarantee compatibility.
For reference, we have a list of devices that we have tested with the iTrack Dock on our support page: Which USB MIDI devices can I use with the iTrack Dock?
I'm sorry that I can't give a more definitive answer in this instance, if there's anything else I can do for you then please let me know.
Best Regards,
Jack Cole
Focusrite Technical Support"
I had already seen the list mentioned above, and admittedly was deterred when I saw how many otherwise standard MIDI controllers had been proven incompatible with the iTrack Dock; but then, I didn't check at the time to see how many of those controllers were class compliant. It sounds as though LinnStrument should work, but Focusrite's answer doesn't seem thorough enough. I guess I was expecting them to comment on how fast the port was, and whether or not it should be able to handle the volume of MIDI messages required for MPE. Surely they know what MPE is and what specs it requires, no? Anyway...
Roger, is there anything else I should ask them, something more specific perhaps?
Has anyone else had success using the iTrack Dock with their LinnStrument?
Cheers!
Last edited by John the Savage on Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi John,
I don't blame them for not knowing because expressive controllers probably represent .1% of their market, but I appreciate your giving them a nudge. I think you'll probably find that while mashing both hands down on LinnStrument in MPE mode (30 continuous streams) may choke some interfaces, common play scenarios will likely work fine.
I don't blame them for not knowing because expressive controllers probably represent .1% of their market, but I appreciate your giving them a nudge. I think you'll probably find that while mashing both hands down on LinnStrument in MPE mode (30 continuous streams) may choke some interfaces, common play scenarios will likely work fine.
-
John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Thanks for the reply, Roger.
Is there some specific detail I can ask them about, or some tech spec I should be looking out for, regarding speed, bandwidth, processing, or whatever, that will help determine whether or not it's a viable interface for MPE?
Cheers!
Is there some specific detail I can ask them about, or some tech spec I should be looking out for, regarding speed, bandwidth, processing, or whatever, that will help determine whether or not it's a viable interface for MPE?
Cheers!
-
- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
They probably won't know. Particularly if it's a low-cost interface like cost-sensitive iOS peripheral products, it was likely designed for a common MIDI keyboard and tested for at most 2 continuous MIDI streams (pitch bend or mod wheel, channel pressure). Odds are few will have tested it with either a LinnStrument or Seaboard. Generally you'll find that mac peripherals are designed more for the pro market and iPad peripherals are more for simple use.
But once again, you'll probably find that you don't feed their interface that much data. It's pretty difficult to precisely control the independent 3D movements of simultaneous fingers. Given LinnStrument's smart one-channel MIDI, MPE isn't needed for most types of playing. But even if you use MPE, I think you'll probably find that it works fine for common play scenarios.
But once again, you'll probably find that you don't feed their interface that much data. It's pretty difficult to precisely control the independent 3D movements of simultaneous fingers. Given LinnStrument's smart one-channel MIDI, MPE isn't needed for most types of playing. But even if you use MPE, I think you'll probably find that it works fine for common play scenarios.
-
John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Well, Roger, it seems you may be right. I'm getting the distinct impression that the guys at Focusrite aren't entirely sure what MPE is, or they simply aren't aware of just how MIDI intensive it can be. I was hoping to get more info out of them, but the answer I got was still a little ambiguous:
ME: "Hi Jack,
Thanks for the prompt reply. Though, to be honest, I was hoping for a little more information.
As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of factors that can affect data transfer rates over USB. As such I was hoping that you might at least be able to draw some comparisons between the interface on your iTrack Dock and, say, the Apple "Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter" or the "iConnect Audio 4+". The USB host ports on both of those units are fast enough to handle most newer MPE applications, hence why I'm using them as examples.
If you're wondering why I'm so interested in your iTrack Dock specifically, it just so happens to be the only iPad dock on the market currently with proper 1/4" audio outputs and a USB host port. Which in turn makes it a real draw for anyone wanting to use a LinnStrument (or any other MPE controller for that matter) in live performance situations!
Do you know how fast the USB host port on the iTrack Dock is, or how many continuous MIDI streams it can handle?
Thanks again for you time."
THEM: "Thanks for your reply.
I'm afraid that we don't have a precise measurement of the exact transfer speeds that the Dock is capable of, though I can confirm that it's a USB 2.0 port and so should therefore have more than enough bandwidth for MIDI applications, including sending multiple channels/clock data.
Though we don't have access to a LinnStrument to test with, I've never encountered any problems with bandwidth/transfer speed when using any compatible USB MIDI device with the Dock (including when sending/receiving clock data at high tempos).
I'm sorry that I can't give a 'yes' or 'no' answer to your question - if you already have a LinnStrument, it might be worth taking it to a store that has iTrack Docks in stock to ask if you'd be able to test this out before purchasing.
If there's anything else I can do for you then please let me know.
Best Regards,
Jack Cole
Focusrite Technical Support"
And I'm afraid that's where my own knowledge runs aground as well. I don't know what else I could ask them. I guess I'll just have to test the device for myself. My instinct, however, is that it's going to choke in full MPE mode. Tell me I'm wrong.
It's shaping up to be a lonely plight, this MPE thing (sigh)... Anyone?
(smirk)
Cheers!
ME: "Hi Jack,
Thanks for the prompt reply. Though, to be honest, I was hoping for a little more information.
As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of factors that can affect data transfer rates over USB. As such I was hoping that you might at least be able to draw some comparisons between the interface on your iTrack Dock and, say, the Apple "Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter" or the "iConnect Audio 4+". The USB host ports on both of those units are fast enough to handle most newer MPE applications, hence why I'm using them as examples.
If you're wondering why I'm so interested in your iTrack Dock specifically, it just so happens to be the only iPad dock on the market currently with proper 1/4" audio outputs and a USB host port. Which in turn makes it a real draw for anyone wanting to use a LinnStrument (or any other MPE controller for that matter) in live performance situations!
Do you know how fast the USB host port on the iTrack Dock is, or how many continuous MIDI streams it can handle?
Thanks again for you time."
THEM: "Thanks for your reply.
I'm afraid that we don't have a precise measurement of the exact transfer speeds that the Dock is capable of, though I can confirm that it's a USB 2.0 port and so should therefore have more than enough bandwidth for MIDI applications, including sending multiple channels/clock data.
Though we don't have access to a LinnStrument to test with, I've never encountered any problems with bandwidth/transfer speed when using any compatible USB MIDI device with the Dock (including when sending/receiving clock data at high tempos).
I'm sorry that I can't give a 'yes' or 'no' answer to your question - if you already have a LinnStrument, it might be worth taking it to a store that has iTrack Docks in stock to ask if you'd be able to test this out before purchasing.
If there's anything else I can do for you then please let me know.
Best Regards,
Jack Cole
Focusrite Technical Support"
And I'm afraid that's where my own knowledge runs aground as well. I don't know what else I could ask them. I guess I'll just have to test the device for myself. My instinct, however, is that it's going to choke in full MPE mode. Tell me I'm wrong.
It's shaping up to be a lonely plight, this MPE thing (sigh)... Anyone?
(smirk)
Cheers!
-
- KVRist
- 248 posts since 26 Jan, 2014
I think Roger is right: unless you are really pushing your polyphony, I think it will work well enough.
I've really found it to be the case that I don't end up playing with very many voices at once, in practice. Especially when playing with other instruments you will probably end up maximizing the expressiveness of fewer notes rather than putting down a lot of two handed stuff.
Your mileage may vary, of course!
Also, I don't think that Focusrite/Novation would risk their reputation on shipping something that couldn't handle at least 4-8 channels of three continuous streams, but that is obviously pure speculation.
I've really found it to be the case that I don't end up playing with very many voices at once, in practice. Especially when playing with other instruments you will probably end up maximizing the expressiveness of fewer notes rather than putting down a lot of two handed stuff.
Your mileage may vary, of course!
Also, I don't think that Focusrite/Novation would risk their reputation on shipping something that couldn't handle at least 4-8 channels of three continuous streams, but that is obviously pure speculation.
-
- KVRer
- 2 posts since 1 Jan, 2017
Hi,
The iTrack works fine with Linnstrument128.
No problems with Anymoog, Seaboard and other synths.
It's really fast and it charges your iPad.
ITrack sounds quite clear and far better then iPad by itself.
The bad news:
(in my case) iTrack starts to make strange noises and glitches after 40-60 minutes of using it.
Sometimes with power LED blinking chaotically, sometimes not.
It happened several times and I've returned my iTrack back to the seller.
It's no problem when you are using it at home but for gigs it's a big headache.
Now I'm quite happy with my old RME Babyface (In fact it's not so compact because of the huge cable adapter. And your iPad isn't charging) and waiting for Expert sleepers FH-1
The iTrack works fine with Linnstrument128.
No problems with Anymoog, Seaboard and other synths.
It's really fast and it charges your iPad.
ITrack sounds quite clear and far better then iPad by itself.
The bad news:
(in my case) iTrack starts to make strange noises and glitches after 40-60 minutes of using it.
Sometimes with power LED blinking chaotically, sometimes not.
It happened several times and I've returned my iTrack back to the seller.
It's no problem when you are using it at home but for gigs it's a big headache.
Now I'm quite happy with my old RME Babyface (In fact it's not so compact because of the huge cable adapter. And your iPad isn't charging) and waiting for Expert sleepers FH-1
-
John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Hmm...
I've read quite a few iTrack reviews complaining about noise and glitchy behavior, as well as iPads overheating, and various other concerns.
At any rate, that's all I needed to hear. Thanks for the feedback, Vlad. I think I'll pass on this device. I've decided to give the iConnectAudio4+ a try. It's on its way to me now. I'll let y'all know how that goes. Actually, Geert, if you read this, I'm sure I've seen you testing AniMoog on an iPad using one of the iConnect boxes... Is the MIDI throughput fast enough for full-on MPE playing?
As for building a small modular around an MPE configuration... Now, there's an idea (grin)!
Cheers!
I've read quite a few iTrack reviews complaining about noise and glitchy behavior, as well as iPads overheating, and various other concerns.
At any rate, that's all I needed to hear. Thanks for the feedback, Vlad. I think I'll pass on this device. I've decided to give the iConnectAudio4+ a try. It's on its way to me now. I'll let y'all know how that goes. Actually, Geert, if you read this, I'm sure I've seen you testing AniMoog on an iPad using one of the iConnect boxes... Is the MIDI throughput fast enough for full-on MPE playing?
As for building a small modular around an MPE configuration... Now, there's an idea (grin)!
Cheers!
