low row as filter control

[franklinstower]

I am exploring using the low row function as a mod wheel that controls the filter cutoff on a synth. My synth receives CC19 as a the filter control by default. I have the Y axis function set to 19 and it works to control the filter in the synth.

I set the low row function to CC19 and set the x and z to 0 as I dont want them to function at this time. I also have the low row set to fader so that whatever changes set in the low row remain after I choose a setting.

The problem I am having is that the low row is not making any changes at all in the filter cutoff level of the synth. No changes that is if I press the leftmost key, the rightmost key or anything in between on the low row. If I slide my finger upwards or downwards on any of the low row keys I do get the same filter control that I get sliding upwards or downwards on any note I press on the keyboard but once I take my finger off the key the filter level returns to its previous level.

Also I had hoped to be able to set the filter cutoff amount via the low row function and then use the up down movement Y axis on the keyboard to open and close the filter relative to what the low row is set at.

[BobDog]

Hi,

It sounds like you have the low row set to "XYZ=CC16-18" while you should have it set to "X=CC1"?

[BobDog]

Also I don't think you can get the keyboard to work with the same CC relative to the current value of the low row, although it sounds like a pretty good idea. I'm sure Roger will be along soon with more info...

[digimidi]

Set the low row to X=CC1. Press and hold X=CC1 key. Swipe right to set from HLD to FDR. Swipe down and set from 1 to 19.

Unfortunately, if you are trying to use the low row and Y axis on the keys above for the same controller, they do reset each other.

Gil

[Roger_Linn]

Hi franklinstower,

I'm a little confused. I think you're saying that you want to use forward/backward finger movement on each played note to control filter frequency, which you're already doing. But I think you also want use the left/right position on the Low Row to also control the same filter frequency, and digitalmidi explained how to correctly use the Low Row to do this.

If my understanding is correct, then the two signals will conflict, resulting in the filter frequency jumping between the CC19 signals from the fingered note and Low Row.

If I misunderstood, please clarify.

[John the Savage]

If I may interject (grin)...

What you're trying to do, Frank, would be best accomplished by first mapping the low-row to the filter cut-off frequency, with the low-row set to act as a fader, and then mapping the y-axis to the filter envelope "amount" on your synth (assuming that parameter is accessible). This would be the only way to have simultaneous control over the position of the filter cut-off, while also being able to manually modulate the cut-off frequency relative to that position...

Cheers!

[franklinstower]

Also I don't think you can get the keyboard to work with the same CC relative to the current value of the low row, although it sounds like a pretty good idea. I'm sure Roger will be along soon with more info...

Yes this is exactly what I was hoping to be able to do. This is because the set value of the filter NEEDS to be fluid in a jam setting or playing session in a live setting for getting different sounds out of a synth. For example a very common thing I do is start a jam with the filter cutoff set relatively low creating a very smooth sound and then slowly open it over the course of an hour until the filter is very gritty. This allows for a sense of movement within a piece of music. It would be very helpful of this were possible on the Linnstrument.

But any synthesist will tell you that filter control is hugely important for getting all kinds of different sounds and it is especially helpful if this can be controlled and changed in a live setting. I have ALL of my synths set so that the mod wheel controls the filter amount AND set so that velocity effects the filter from that set position.

As of now the only way this can be done is to set the Y axis relative function to off and then play at the lower end of the pads in the beginning of a jam and slowly move upwards on the pads over time. This is NOT horrible at all but it would be better if the relative value could be set by the low row and changed over time AND you could play up and down from that relative position by hitting higher or lower in the pads.

This might be a great idea for an addition in software and I think most people who play in live settings and especially in jam or improvisational settings would greatly value it. For just playing songs in a set list or making studio music I can see how this functionality would not at all be necessary.

[franklinstower]

If I may interject (grin)...

What you're trying to do, Frank, would be best accomplished by first mapping the low-row to the filter cut-off frequency, with the low-row set to act as a fader, and then mapping the y-axis to the filter envelope "amount" on your synth (assuming that parameter is accessible). This would be the only way to have simultaneous control over the position of the filter cut-off, while also being able to manually modulate the cut-off frequency relative to that position...

Cheers!

Yes I think this can be done on some of my synths but not all of them but is IS a good solution for those synths that are able to receive it.

[franklinstower]

Hi franklinstower,

I'm a little confused. I think you're saying that you want to use forward/backward finger movement on each played note to control filter frequency, which you're already doing. But I think you also want use the left/right position on the Low Row to also control the same filter frequency, and digitalmidi explained how to correctly use the Low Row to do this.

If my understanding is correct, then the two signals will conflict, resulting in the filter frequency jumping between the CC19 signals from the fingered note and Low Row.

If I misunderstood, please clarify.

Yes that is it but with this clarification. The low row would be setting the "relative" position of the filter and the Y axis would be controlling upwards or downwards from that position.

I realize this Linnstrumnt is geared towards where synthesis is heading today and maybe even a bit ahead of its time. The functionality I am suggesting would help for those of us using older synths...

Basically just looking for a quick way to adjust the relative function of the Y axis in a live setting.

[Roger_Linn]

Thank you, franklinstower. I now better understand what you're trying to do. You want the Low Row value to be added to the Y-axis value then send the sum over CC19. Unfortunately, such modulation math is generally done in the synth and not in the controller. I am not aware of any controller that performs modulation math like this.

One way to do what you seek would be to send Low Row on CC19 while sending Y-axis on another CC like 20. Then in your synth or DAW, you would add these 2 CCs together and assign the sum to control filter frequency. Or perhaps your synth has another modulation destination that effectively controls Filter Frequency.

[Tj Shredder]

In Logic you could write a little scripter to do that.
Or think of it as 14-bit Midi, one sends the MSB, the controler +32 sends the LSB... but that might be too subtle...; - )

[franklinstower]

Thank you, franklinstower. I now better understand what you're trying to do. You want the Low Row value to be added to the Y-axis value then send the sum over CC19. Unfortunately, such modulation math is generally done in the synth and not in the controller. I am not aware of any controller that performs modulation math like this.

One way to do what you seek would be to send Low Row on CC19 while sending Y-axis on another CC like 20. Then in your synth or DAW, you would add these 2 CCs together and assign the sum to control filter frequency. Or perhaps your synth has another modulation destination that effectively controls Filter Frequency.

Roger thank you for taking the time to reply. The problem is that not all synths have the capacities you suggest. Once again it would be a good workaround if the Linnstrument could do this for synths that dont have as many assignable parameters and I am using a few of those in my band and wont be changing them.

Bottom line is I was looking for a way to change the relative value of the Y function on the fly - even right in the middle of a song and that would be really useful and helpful for live settings. On the Linnstrument it is already changeable, but you have to exit the keyboard to do so. I am asking about a way to do that without having to stop playing the keys at the same time. Maybe one of the assignable switches could be used for this.

As of now the best option is to turn off the relative function and just hit the pads in the right place from bottom to top as a way of getting very different sounds over time and as I said in an above post this is NOT a bad solution and if you dont choose to add the other option it is what I will do. It will just take a while to master that kind of precision while hitting the pads. On the other hand this approach while more difficult does also make it more like a real instrument where you CAN mess up and pluck a string to hard or too soft.

The Linnstrument has already made my playing more dynamic and alive. I only use analog synths and am never trying to emulate the sounds of physical instruments and since its on a keyboard I never really thought too much about the missing expressiveness but using the Linnstrument has opened up a new world for me and puts my "synth bass piano" more on par expressively speaking with a bass guitar.

[Roger_Linn]

Hi franklinstower,

I can understand how it must seem reasonable to ask me to add a feature for one specific user's way of playing, and one that is the domain of a synth and not that of a controller, but it's actually not a good idea. To learn why, please take a look at the LinnStrument FAQ page and specifically the FAQ "Can you add this feature?" There you'll find my guiding principle for adding or not adding features.

Would anyone care to write a standalone Max patch for franklinstower that would add two CCs together? Or franklinstower, perhaps you can share which synth you're using and someone can help you figure out how to do what you want to do?

[franklinstower]

Hi franklinstower,

I can understand how it must seem reasonable to ask me to add a feature for one specific user's way of playing, and one that is the domain of a synth and not that of a controller, but it's actually not a good idea. To learn why, please take a look at the LinnStrument FAQ page and specifically the FAQ "Can you add this feature?" There you'll find my guiding principle for adding or not adding features.

Would anyone care to write a standalone Max patch for franklinstower that would add two CCs together? Or franklinstower, perhaps you can share which synth you're using and someone can help you figure out how to do what you want to do?

No problem Roger it is something I could easily hire out anyway. I am genuinely surprised many more people dont want the feature!!!

[John the Savage]

I am genuinely surprised many more people don't want the feature!!!

I think a fair question is, how would you make this happen on the synth itself? And if you can't, why should the controller be tasked with overcoming the limitations of the hardware or software it's hooked up to? I mean, there are perfectly viable ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish, as previously discussed in this thread, with the one caveat being that the synth itself must be capable of the required modulation routing and provide access to it. A controller is just a controller after all. And to that end, the LinnStrument is, without question, one of the more configurable controllers on the market: i.e. if the synth can do it, the LinnStrument can do it. Otherwise...

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying... Personally, it would never occur to me to ask for such a feature; but then, I tend to look to the source of the problem. I'm reluctantly using software synths, for instance, because they allow me to use the LinnStrument to its fullest potential. But when I do hook it up to one of my hardware synths, I curb my expectations accordingly.

Cheers!