Best DAW for linnstrument?

[StyleBuck]

What do you think is the best DAW for the linnstrument? A big factor is how easy it is to make it MPE capable, as I plan to do a lot of two handed playing, but I'm open to other factors as well. What do you think?

[John the Savage]

For all practical purposes, Logic is probably your best bet currently.

I've also heard that Cubase handles MPE fairly well, but I've never used it myself, so that's just hearsay.

I gave up on Bitwig almost immediately, which is a shame because I like the direction that DAW is heading in otherwise; but as far as MPE is concerned, it's just not there yet. Granted, I haven't been keeping up with its progress as of late, so perhaps things have changed for the better... I don't know.

Personally, I just use an iPad running Animoog for MPE synth work, and I record audio only directly into Ableton (which is the absolute worst choice of DAW for MPE by the way), so the limitations of MPE data handling, recording, and sequencing don't really affect me. But I'm old-school that way (wink).

Cheers!

[Roger_Linn]

News flash: Moog has released the MiniMoog Model D app for iPad, and it’s MPE compatible. Of course it is, given that Geert wrote it.

[StyleBuck]

I record audio only directly into Ableton (which is the absolute worst choice of DAW for MPE by the way), so the limitations of MPE data handling, recording, and sequencing don't really affect me.

That is good to know that you can you can get around the ableton limitations by recording audio only. Thanks for the tip!

[StyleBuck]

I'm a windows guy. At this time, I'm not looking to move to MAC. Maybe sometime down the road, if MAC is just that much better for the things I'm trying to do, but not at this time.

With that in mind, what's a good MPE friendly windows DAW?

[John the Savage]

I'm a windows guy. At this time, I'm not looking to move to MAC. Maybe sometime down the road, if MAC is just that much better for the things I'm trying to do, but not at this time.

With that in mind, what's a good MPE friendly windows DAW?

- Cubase
- Reaper
- Tracktion Waveform
- Bitwig

All of the above work on Windows and have the facilities to handle and record MPE performance data; but which has the better workflow is highly subjective. Again though, I caution that Bitwig doesn't record channel data correctly, among other shortcomings, so proceed at your own risk.

Cheers!

[John the Savage]

News flash: Moog has released the MiniMoog Model D app for iPad, and it’s MPE compatible. Of course it is, given that Geert wrote it.

Yep! I grabbed it the second it dropped, on sale for 5 bucks (grin). It's regular price now, but seriously folks, Animoog, Model 15, and Model D are all fantastic soft synths for the money!

Geert, if you happen to read this, could you please add a MIDI channel filter to these apps, à la Equator or Seaboard 5D? It doesn't make sense to have a four voice synth hogging all 16 MIDI channels; and third-party channel filters like MIDIflow block incoming clock, so I can't sync my delays and LFO's. Thank you (grin).

Cheers!

[StyleBuck]

Does protools handle MPE? I have a license and and some familiarity with pro tools already, along with this piece of accompanying hardware:

https://www.avid.com/~/media/avid/files ... dsena4.pdf

[John the Savage]

Does protools handle MPE? I have a license and and some familiarity with pro tools already, along with this piece of accompanying hardware:

https://www.avid.com/~/media/avid/files ... dsena4.pdf

Last I checked, it did not. I know Pro Tools users were complaining about it just last year, so unless it's been updated recently...

Cheers!

[StyleBuck]

I gave up on Bitwig almost immediately, which is a shame because I like the direction that DAW is heading in otherwise; but as far as MPE is concerned, it's just not there yet.

Why is a copy of bitwig 8-track included with linnstrument then? That is odd.

[ThomasHelzle]

I found that review on MPE - even though it's for the seaboard - quite good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKqHb5WoVoI
Bitwig may not be all there yet but I still like it the most of all of them.

Cheers,

Tom

[John the Savage]

I gave up on Bitwig almost immediately, which is a shame because I like the direction that DAW is heading in otherwise; but as far as MPE is concerned, it's just not there yet.

Why is a copy of bitwig 8-track included with linnstrument then? That is odd.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure Bitwig was actually the first DAW to implement MPE functionality. Regardless, as two relatively small companies, I'm guessing it just made sense for Roger Linn and the team at Bitwig to use each other's products as a vehicle to get the word out about the MPE protocol. Bitwig is actually a very forward thinking company, but they kind of dropped the ball on the MPE front if you ask me. They could have had this over their competition, hands down, but now the rest of the industry is catching up fast.

That said, I do think Bitwig's method of displaying and editing MPE performance data is well implemented — better (visually) than the competition thus far — it's just that they need to rework their handling of MIDI channel information and augment their configuration options. As it stands now, you can record and edit all the performance data just fine, but because Bitwig doesn't keep track of the channel-per-note assignments, playback is a bust. And currently the only options for pitch-bend and y-axis control are +/- 48 and CC74 respectively, but not all synths can accommodate that.

One of the most frustrating side-effects of all this is that you cannot play two notes of the same pitch in Bitwig without unwanted interactions. That alone makes it useless to me.

Anyway... Blah, blah.

As I said in my earlier post, I only record the audio from my MPE performances. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to edit all that MIDI data (smirk). I mean, what's the point of "expressive" control if you're just gonna tweak the human feel out of it?

Cheers!

[BobDog]

Bitwig really needs to sort out its midi side of things and then it would be great. Just simple things like being able to select a midi device (not controller) and channel/s for a track and recording midi channel info for notes and it would be most of the way there. I originally upgraded to version 2 to get the extra midi devices which they then removed in the first update and they never came back, I will be more wary next time!

[Roger_Linn]

Why is a copy of bitwig 8-track included with linnstrument then? That is odd.

While it’s true that Bitwig’s MPE implementation has minor problems, overall I think it’s a very good DAW with built-in MPE synths, sequencing and editing. And if someone likes the Ableton look and feel and wants MPE, it’s the only alternative. So I appreciate their offering the 8-track version free to LinnStrument buyers.

Bitwig’s main limitation is that it doesn’t store the original channel information with each recorded note. The biggest problem with this is that you can’t play 2 instances of the same pitch at the same time, which I’ve discovered most people don’t even notice. I didn’t learn this until after I started including the licenses with each LinnStrument, but when I did I didn’t feel it was important enough to stop including it.

[Tj Shredder]

I want to mention, that the free Ardour and probably Mixbus which is based on Ardour are as Logic naturally MPE capable, you don't have to set anything, it just works.
For me Ardour is THE alternative finally to ProTools. I sent them a dollar each month for longer than I was actually using it. Its completely hassle free in terms of protection (because it doesn't exist..). And it has the best waveform view in the industry...

I will upgrade my Bitwig 2 license as soon they get the Midi channel stupid information erasure fixed. If every LinnStrument, Seaboard, Continuum player will send them at least one request per month...
I know they are aware of it, but I don't know the place in their to do list...

One good option for Mac users is also to run the synths in Mainstage and then route the audio into whatever DAW you like best. The other advantage of that set is, you get all the apple instruments on top of it...
I made a little scripter, which helps to turn even monophonic AUis into polyphonic MPE instruments. There is still a little bug in there, when its fixed, I will share it...