Login / Register  0 items | $0.00 New#KVRDeals
User avatar
Kazrog
KVRian
 
871 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Postby Kazrog; Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:24 pm Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

OK, first of all, let me preface this by saying that I'm not considering adopting a subscription-based model for my plugins any time soon (or perhaps ever.) I'm just curious where you guys stand on this sort of thing in general. It seems there is a lot of controversy out there surrounding this as of late, with more companies moving to this kind of model.

I don't have a strong opinion, but I do think the single perpetual license model has worked well for me and my user base. I've put great effort into streamlining that process, and I'm happy with it. Subscriptions are sort of a scary thing to me from a future-proofing standpoint. What if you need to recall a session 10 years from now that includes plugins from a company that no longer exists, for example? The nice thing about DRM-free software (such as mine) is that it can work indefinitely - ancient abandonware freebie VSTs are still working hard out there in people's sessions every day, for example.
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog LLC
User avatar
DrSense
KVRist
 
166 posts since 5 Aug, 2014

Postby DrSense; Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:17 pm Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

I strongly dislike the subscription model...for the exact reason of 'what if...'. The company goes out of business or is bought, decides to significantly change the pricing...the new version adds unwanted features or removes beloved ones and there's no way around an update. A destroyed workflow is the worst thing that can happen and considering how little companies seem to care about if customers like their changes a subscription model is the best way to force all users to just accept what's thrown at them. Or a company just dislikes you and revokes access (there was something about games not being available overnight anymore - in an entire country due to embargos).

I understand that they need to make money but holding all users hostage instead of creating a great product that people want to buy isn't the way.

Personally I am less likely to spend money on a monthly basis for anything. Rent, electricity, internet - that's it. That's okay. But paying for some compressors again and again? Never really owning them? Nope.

Thanks for not giving in to this bs!
User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
 
14944 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:18 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

I don't have anything efficient against subscription models. As long as you still get the choice to actually own the software at some point, it's good.
chroma
KVRian
 
772 posts since 10 Jan, 2010

Postby chroma; Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:34 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

How many people bought VIP vs just regular buyers? That's almost a subscription plan, so would give you some data.

(And your VIP owners would still love to know what's coming in the next pack... hint, hint :)
StateOE
KVRer
 
28 posts since 1 May, 2010, from Han's Island

Postby StateOE; Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:32 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

I'm always dubious of the subscription model. It just feels like a cash grab that makes the software itself feel devalued. To me, I can't help feel like you end up dealing with what was once a respectable company that now feels like Sam's Club.
Dominus
KVRAF
 
1948 posts since 15 Sep, 2003, from Land of Crazies, USA

Postby Dominus; Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:53 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

Kazrog wrote:OWhat if you need to recall a session 10 years from now that includes plugins from a company that no longer exists, for example? The nice thing about DRM-free software (such as mine) is that it can work indefinitely - ancient abandonware freebie VSTs are still working hard out there in people's sessions every day, for example.


This says it all. Anything iLok based with a subscription has an expiration date. (That and people know my thoughts on iLok too.)

I've pretty much locked my computer down on Windows 7, and will probably keep it that way for years. Lots of freeware on here, and anything C/R should presumably keep working as long as the computer does.
Remember the iLokalypse Summer 2013

Samples and presets and free stuff!
User avatar
pekbro
KVRian
 
1195 posts since 29 Sep, 2010, from Maui

Postby pekbro; Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:11 pm Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

The subscription model makes sense to me for companies like Adobe
as the cost of a permanent license for all that they offer with the full
sub would be gargantuan. Its something like $10k worth of software,
even paying $50 per month, it would take nearly 17 years worth of subscription
payments to equal the cost of buying it all outright. If you take into account
the cost of upgrades over that same 17 yr period, the cost of permanent
ownership would likely exceed that of the subscription.

For the entire Kazrog line, I think a "rent to own" subscription would probably work well.
But I can't imagine anything beyond that being particularly worth it for anybody.

-Cheers
Supamazzive
KVRer
 
2 posts since 11 Feb, 2016

Postby Supamazzive; Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:44 pm Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

Hey there, Mr. Shane...

Another vote for the 'Nay' category here. I may speak for the minority, however, as you mentioned earlier, I have been one of those folks who have been left behind by defunked companies as well as upgraded beyond my specs. I currently have ONE plug subscription which uses iLok and it is a constant cause of frustration and is a pain in the ASS! I just wanna record. Not have to worry about what project I open on which machine and passwords, and emails, and tech support, and billing, and... Well... It's a PITA and I'm moving on to another company January 1st.

That said... The products of yours that I have are fuckin' STELLAR and worth subscribing to. I recommend them to all who are interested and/or willing to listen to me blather-on about them. lol You just do what you need to do to make a living, Brother. I will follow.

Much Love and Respect...

Supa
User avatar
morelia
KVRAF
 
4197 posts since 15 May, 2002, from Brisbane , Australia

Postby morelia; Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:30 pm Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

Option A: I buy what I can afford, and then I have it for as long as it works on my system. I can theoretically use it forever (system and copy protection issues aside). Option B: I rent what I can afford, when I can't afford it any longer I cease to be able to use it. I have nothing for my investment, however large that investment may be. Just my POV. Option A all the way for me. Will never, ever subscribe.
My Music >>> °morelia ° Intel Core i5 750 2.66GHz, 12gb, Windows 7 (64), Focusrite Saffire 6 USB
User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
 
2730 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:21 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

i like how Sonar does it - you subscribe for a year, and you get to keep whatever you received that year, indefinitely. this makes sense and is sort of a 'rent to own' model. outright subscription, Adobe style, is a big no-no.
From Russia with love
User avatar
Kazrog
KVRian
 
871 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Postby Kazrog; Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:07 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

chroma wrote:How many people bought VIP vs just regular buyers? That's almost a subscription plan, so would give you some data.

(And your VIP owners would still love to know what's coming in the next pack... hint, hint :)


The VIP plan was a one-time crowdfunding campaign, and I definitely have no plans to do anything similar in the future - it was not the best planned endeavor, and I wish I could have thought of a way to have gone about it differently. It did, however, help transition my business forward during a very difficult time, and helped make everything possible that is happening today, but I don't like the mix of user expectations and developer pressure that's come with it - although, every VIP has been extremely cool about it so far (thankfully.) As a result, I will continue to be extremely generous with VIPs, who have waited patiently, and have at least gotten a lot of new software in return so far.

New amp and pedal models are coming next month, and all VIPs will get them as soon as they are available, free, automatically registered. More amp and pedal models will be coming throughout 2017, also, and will of course be free for VIPs. 8)
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog LLC
User avatar
Topeznor
KVRist
 
210 posts since 18 Jun, 2015

Postby Topeznor; Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:52 pm Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

Completely against subscriptions. I have enough with my electricity bill, thanks. :lol:
koitsu
KVRist
 
65 posts since 19 Jan, 2015

Postby koitsu; Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:45 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

I won't participate in subscription-based software either. For photo-editing (non-professionally), I stuck with Photoshop CS5 for the longest time, and then Affinity Photo hit the scene... and I jumped immediately to it. Also a reason why something like Protools would never replace Reaper for me. Maybe it's simply me being a Gen Xer, or maybe it's just because of some personal spending quirks, but subscription pricing on software for my personal use really rubs me the wrong way. What I'm saying here must be on an emotional level because I would still choose to purchase software outright even at a loss versus subscription pricing. To a certain degree, of course. Beyond that, I'd seek alternatives if subscription was inevitable for the product in question.

However, in a professional setting, I can see some small advantages to developer and consumer. I oversee IT for a company that frequently takes on contractors when projects are scaled up, and it saves me a lot of hassle in license costing and planning when we can do month-to-month payments on things like Office 365 or CC, for example, versus the old days where I would have to look into volume licensing or exorbitant retail prices. What pekbro said above absolutely rings true in a business setting like what we've got, which I admit isn't necessarily representative of most businesses or most industries. For the developer, I can see some arguments from their finance or accounting people on why subscriptions might be beneficial. Somewhat more certainty when forecasting for plans and budgets, for example.
User avatar
cturner
KVRist
 
125 posts since 7 Dec, 2009, from GWB

Postby cturner; Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:16 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

I think the key motivation for moving to subscription pricing on the part of plugin developers that have historically catered to the professional market is the breaking of the connection between "price" and "value." One has only to read any plugin thread on Gearslutz (eg the recent Brainworx SSL E channel) to see that relation as the most constant theme WRT software on that site.

I think Kush Audio has the most interesting subscription offer. They have a number of very appealing plugins with about a $150/ea price point. Their subscription is $10/mo, so given the total value of their software, I could subscribe for a number of years before I'd paid out the cost of outright purchase. I use, or think I might use, all of their plugs; they have made significant updates to their existing library while I have been a subscriber; and they have a much-anticipated new compressor arriving after Labor Day.

In comparison, Eventide or Slate charge $25/mo, and I have trouble knowing what I'd do with all their stuff. I might subscribe to sample their plugs, as I'm not very good at "the 15-day trial", but ATM, I'm happy with owning Omnipressor, Stereo Room and nothing from Slate.

WRT to Kazrog, I can't conceive what a subscription would offer, given I could buy the complete package for $150. It seems the new KClip3 will have a $50 price point, so is Kazrog trying to move in the opposite direction from the current trend (eg Waves) of slashing prices?

Airwindows is another useful company to look at with their Patreon funding and weekly free plugins. Definitely non-standard, but apparently a good move for Chris Johnson.

Anyway, all the best to Kazrog!
User avatar
Michael L
KVRAF
 
1759 posts since 25 Jan, 2014, from the End of the World as we Knowit

Postby Michael L; Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:55 am Re: Subscription plans for audio plugins - what do you think?

In your first post, you did not describe any advantages of a subscription. Do you have any in mind? Perhaps if Complete Collection were available for $/year, and at the end one got a discount on the product they want to keep (for above reasons) the subscription could be like paying for an 'extended demo.' That could be worthwhile. I notice that users are often happy with payment programs when they are a really good fit with that company's product line.
"As the artist goes deeper into his own thing, he learns what works and then needs fewer tools."
Next

Moderators: Moderators (Main), Kazrog Mods

Return to Kazrog