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Eleventh
KVRist
 
297 posts since 1 Dec, 2012

Postby Eleventh; Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:52 am Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

First of all, I think this is a REAPER only issue, caused by it rounding the plugin delay compensation to a full block size, and this isn't taken into account by the plugins. Same thing happened with the KClip oversampling issue some time ago (not sure if that's fixed yet).

I've noticed this before but as I haven't really used the blend function, I couldn't be bothered with further investigation. However, the newest update claims to fix the issue:

Kazrog wrote:From the manual in progress, for version 5.0.5 guitar FX:
[*]Fixed plugin delay compensation issue that caused wet/dry signal phasing during blending.[/list]


Well, I decided to do some testing and noticed some strange things happening.

For reference, here's the clean impulse (light blue) overlaid with a simple zero-latency saturation (yellow):
Image

Here's Vintage Driver at 100% wet. Still nothing special here. The slower rise time of the waveform is normal for a circuit emulation plugin I think. 7 samples shouldn't cause much problems when blended with wet/dry.
Image

But here's a GIF where I toggle a 30% mix (to balance the peaks) Vintage Driver through quality 1-6.
Image

There's a significant difference with the dry and wet peaks, and in oversampled (buffered) modes the dry peak is shifted backwards in time.

The plugin reported latency values change accordingly (I'm using 128 samples of audio device buffer):
0 - 64 - 32 - 16 - 32 - 16

Other strangeness:

Thermionik Blackverb, 100% dry, quality 1 (8spl latency)
Image

Thermionik Blackverb, 30% dry, quality 1-6
Image

Also, Recabinet 5 now seems to report zero latency, instead of 1*buffer. However, here's Recab 5, 30% wet, Dyn ON
Image
The impulse itself naturally adds a bit latency and it varies, but with every impulse I tried there was at least ~18spl added latency between the dry and wet peaks, when the Dynamics was ON.

So, at the moment I wouldn't advice any REAPER peeps to use the blend function until this is fixed.
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Kazrog
KVRian
 
854 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Postby Kazrog; Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:17 am Re: Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

Thanks for the detailed feedback, and excellent GIFs! Out of curiosity, what tool are you using to make those?

You are right - this issue isn't present in other hosts, where similar testing was conducted. I'll look into this further, and (if needed) reach out to Cockos for any suggestions they might have.

Again, thank you so much!
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog LLC
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
 
14664 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:05 am Re: Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

He used LICEcap for the GIFs :)

http://www.cockos.com/licecap/
Eleventh
KVRist
 
297 posts since 1 Dec, 2012

Postby Eleventh; Thu May 11, 2017 2:09 am Re: Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

Any progress here? Would like to run Bass Director in parallel :P


PS. Dropbox screwed up the gif links GRR...

PPS. Thermionik amps seem to no longer report the latency correctly... I tried mixing an amp in parallel, and I get varying amounts of phasing depending on the oversampling mode. Previously this was working IIRC because the reported latency changed and Reaper compensated for that. Now it's just a steady 8 samples of latency, no matter which quality is selected -> phasing in parallel
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Kazrog
KVRian
 
854 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Postby Kazrog; Thu May 11, 2017 7:26 am Re: Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

I've been able to recreate the problem, not only in Reaper, but in other hosts as well. I'm not sure how this is even possible - thorough latency testing and compensation was done for every release. Very frustrating.

This will get addressed in the next minor refresh of the bundle. Sorry, guys!
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog LLC
Eleventh
KVRist
 
297 posts since 1 Dec, 2012

Postby Eleventh; Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:16 am Re: Phasing when using Wet/Dry blend (REAPER)

While waiting for the fix for this, I created a workaround by disabling PDC for Bass Director and manually compensating with a JS plugin. Quality is set to 5. If you want to change that you'll have to change the sample delay amount in JS:Time Adjustment Delay. Dry/Wet mixing is done in the JS:SwixMitch plugin.

Track template attached.

PS. Can we please have the OUT parameter in your plugins only affect the Wet signal, so we can level match wet and dry for mixing? This is standard practice.

Cheers!
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