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Thermionik high frequencies

Arp_
KVRer
 
6 posts since 6 Sep, 2011

Postby Arp_; Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:28 am Thermionik high frequencies

I have this one thing with Thermionik that I wonder a little bit about.

Compared to other amp sims, it sounds to me as if all Thermionik amps pass throught some sort of lowpass filter that removes the highest frequencies from sound, especially those near the upper hearing range, so it doesn't sound as bright and "sharp" as other amp sims. It's not really a complaint, because when it comes to final result, there are only very few cases when other plugins can compare with Thermionik. But I still wonder about it - is it done on purpose, or is it a limitation of modeling, or something else? Also I should say that as a beginner guitar player, I never even had any actual real amp, so maybe this is just natural frequency range of the modeled amps and all other plugins got it wrong? Anyway, I am curious, what's the deal with Thermionik and high frequencies?

P.S. If you suggest using the Bright switch, then it wouldn't actually work, because it mostly reduces bass, but doesn't add the "missing" highs.
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Kazrog
KVRian
 
876 posts since 24 Oct, 2009

Postby Kazrog; Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:36 pm Re: Thermionik high frequencies

Many amp modelers use very cheap, efficient algorithms, which can result in a much more open top end, with less reduction of harsh upper frequencies. Conversely, all Thermionik models were tweaked until they fooled me in blind tests against the real amps. There's zero compromise.

In the end, use whatever you prefer the sound of for a given mix. My priority was accuracy in modeling the analog hardware. Some people actually prefer less accurate modeling. It just depends on your preference, nothing is ever objectively "better" in an artistic sense.
Shane McFee
CEO/CTO - Kazrog LLC
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ianblack8
KVRer
 
6 posts since 5 Oct, 2017

Postby ianblack8; Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:04 am Re: Thermionik high frequencies

I only recently converted to amp sim + cab IR method with Kazrog plugins (still very impressed, of course) and obviously in this case frequency spectrum in big part depends on speaker+mic impulse response; I think amps themselves are pretty generous with high-mid to high frequencies. Some IRs just sound brighter than others no matter what amp and settings you choose. I know whatever I'm saying doesn't imply higher harmonics (like, beyond 16k), but In my experience, for example while using PsychoC blue channel with Celestion V30 IRs + SM57, I tend to dial treble down to about 4 (with saturation at 10), and it sounds pretty natural and balanced to me, as far as brightness and openness goes. If you need higher harmonics for the mix you could use additional plugins to drive and saturate the sound (as you would expect to do "IRL"), but I'm pretty sure these harmonics are not supposed to be inherently present in original sound, at least in larger quantities. (although, if you toggle the 14k LPF filter off in recabinet, you still could really hear the difference)
Studiostriver
KVRist
 
228 posts since 2 Mar, 2014, from Bosnia

Postby Studiostriver; Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:55 am Re: Thermionik high frequencies

I actually experienced reverse. Thermionik has the most opened high end sound from the most amp sims out there, especially more meaner one.

I think that some high frequencies are actually too much if you tend to push treble and presence on amps, but as ianblack8 commented all sims going sometimes above their natural territory,but its highly adjustable and you can get desirable tone very fast! That is one of biggest pros of whole Kazrog amp sims range series.

Still for clean tones I use almost always S-Gear and some Brainworx stuff cause it sound the most natural clean I can get from emulation without sounding"digitally opened".

For meaner tones Thermionik and Mercural Audio are currently the best imho.

And of course ir`s place very big role in overall sound. Finding matching ir with amp would make it sound more convincing and add more distinction between amps.
I tend to use mesa amps irs with mesa sims, orange with orange, Marshall with Marshall etc.. But I break "rules" very often when its about mixing that particular sound with other instruments.

Cheers.

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