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WaveToZebra & Choir sounds in Zebra2

fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:08 am WaveToZebra & Choir sounds in Zebra2

Hey Urs, can you please create a sticky in this forum for jupiter8's awesome converter for Zebra2

Available at: http://www.tekno.chalmers.se/~magolo/synth/

And perhaps if there are any other good little tools like this, they can be added? I just realized how hard it was to find this tool, even when using Google :)

Thanks a lot
Fots

Edit: Thread renamed :)
Last edited by fgimian on Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:17 am

http://sites.google.com/site/wav2zebra2/

This side is a bit messy but use this one instead. The JUCE version is identical but i believe there's a bug in the Java version that (i believe) is fixed on this site.

The Java version is much better than the old JUCE version so use that one if possible. It allows for straight wav import and you can double click on the cells to load a sample for example. It's ugly as sin though.
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:22 am

Thanks a lot mate, I'm just playing with it now, and the newer version you posted is a lot better. I had some issues getting the exported waves to load with the previous version.

Is there a recommendation as to which note we should sample to produce the waveform? Is a low pitch better for accuracy purposes?

I also tried comparing the original waveform I am trying to import with the final imported version (at the same pitch) and they actually sound quite different. Is this to be expected?

Thanks :)
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:27 am

soundpalace wrote:Is there a recommendation as to which note we should sample to produce the waveform? Is a low pitch better for accuracy purposes?

Not really. It gets resampled to a length of 128 samples so the closer to that the better. Don't know how much it matters though but that's the theory anyways.

I was thinking about implementing a better interpolation algorithm but have'nt bothered so far. There's plenty of stuff going on under the hood in Zebra2 so i don't think it matters that much.
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:31 am

soundpalace wrote:I also tried comparing the original waveform I am trying to import with the final imported version (at the same pitch) and they actually sound quite different. Is this to be expected?

Yes and no. In the first version i did a FFT/iFFT conversion for a couple of reasons i won't bore you with.

In the new version you can have raw export as well (or both at the same time).
The FFTd version can differ quite a bit from the original but the raw one is just interpolated to a different length so it should be almost identical if it's a short waveform. If you load Vivaldi's 4 seasons in there it's obviously not going to resemble the original :D
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:34 am

Cool :) Forgive my silliness, but where exactly is that option? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks for all your help!
Fots
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:39 am

soundpalace wrote:Cool :) Forgive my silliness, but where exactly is that option? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks for all your help!
Fots

Are you using the Wav2Zebra2Java version ? It's under preferences. In the old one (the screenshot you see on the page) that option isn't implemented.
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:47 am

jupiter8 wrote:
soundpalace wrote:Cool :) Forgive my silliness, but where exactly is that option? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks for all your help!
Fots

Are you using the Wav2Zebra2Java version ? It's under preferences. In the old one (the screenshot you see on the page) that option isn't implemented.


Ah, I apologize, I was using the other version. I'll install JRE and try the Java one now.

Thanks a lot ;)
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:55 am

soundpalace wrote: I'll install JRE

That is the downside to do stuff in Java. It's a pain in the butt if you don't have Java installed. I noticed some sluggish behaviour at times too. The Juce version sometimes feel snappier.

However the Java version works on Macs (and Linux) , has keyboard shortcuts and is generally faster to use (at least i think so),you can double click on the cells etc. It has the raw export already mentioned and probably some other stuff i have forgot about. It should be better in pretty much every respect compared to the version you're running now.

It does'nt auto normalize which i believe the old version did. If that's a problem,just normalize the waves first (or do it in Zebra). I remember having a hard time deciding which path to take regarding t auto normalizing but i believe i decided against it since you can do that externally.

I have'nt had that much user feedback regarding feature request so either it sucks balls and noone is using it or people are generally happy with the choices i made. Or maybe people are afraid of me and don't dare to ask. :D
I believe i can seem like quite a grudge at times but i'm generally quite friendly. Promise. :hihi:
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:06 am

jupiter8 wrote:
soundpalace wrote: I'll install JRE

That is the downside to do stuff in Java. It's a pain in the butt if you don't have Java installed. I noticed some sluggish behaviour at times too. The Juce version sometimes feel snappier.

However the Java version works on Macs (and Linux) , has keyboard shortcuts and is generally faster to use (at least i think so),you can double click on the cells etc. It has the raw export already mentioned and probably some other stuff i have forgot about. It should be better in pretty much every respect compared to the version you're running now.

It does'nt auto normalize which i believe the old version did. If that's a problem,just normalize the waves first (or do it in Zebra). I remember having a hard time deciding which path to take regarding t auto normalizing but i believe i decided against it since you can do that externally.

I have'nt had that much user feedback regarding feature request so either it sucks balls and noone is using it or people are generally happy with the choices i made. Or maybe people are afraid of me and don't dare to ask. :D
I believe i can seem like quite a grudge at times but i'm generally quite friendly. Promise. :hihi:


:hihi: It's all good, well I installed JRE and the new version indeed is a LOT better, the RAW version sounds almost the same as the original. The DFT version sounds very different.

I don't mind installing JRE personally because I plan to convert some waves and then uninstall Java, I guess this is not something you do every day anyway.

Regarding the normalization, I expected to have to normalize my WAV file anyway, so that doesn't affect me to be honest.

Thanks again for all your help and answers! This post has been extremely informative and will hopefully help someone in future who comes across the same questions :)

The main annoyance I am facing appears to be a bug in Zebra (2.3.1). When loading different waveforms which uses GeoBlend, it doesn't seem to actually take affect aurally. If you move the Normalise knob a bit, it wakes up and properly loads the waveform. Have you experienced this behavior also?
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:14 am

soundpalace wrote:The main annoyance I am facing appears to be a bug in Zebra (2.3.1). When loading different waveforms which uses GeoBlend, it doesn't seem to actually take affect aurally. If you move the Normalise knob a bit, it wakes up and properly loads the waveform. Have you experienced this behavior also?

Yes i have and i know Urs has looked into it. I believe it got a bit better but not completely solved. It's quite a weird problem because i don't think it always happens,just sometimes. I'm not aware of anything i can do on my part to fix this. If there is i'll fix it but in the meantime you need to nag Urs about it.
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:48 am

Cool, I'll be sure to bug him about it :)

I have just been toying around with your awesome tool and cutting up some soundfont samples! I have created my first choir attempt for Zebra2 and it doesn't sound too bad :) Certainly a lot closer than most other synths I've tried imho.

Check it out
http://users.on.net/~djbros/Zebra2%20Boys%20Choir.mp3
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jupiter8
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9368 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:07 am

soundpalace wrote:Cool, I'll be sure to bug him about it :)

I have just been toying around with your awesome tool and cutting up some soundfont samples! I have created my first choir attempt for Zebra2 and it doesn't sound too bad :) Certainly a lot closer than most other synths I've tried imho.

Check it out
http://users.on.net/~djbros/Zebra2%20Boys%20Choir.mp3

Wow, that was amazing. I really liked that sound. Reminds me of an old Fairlight sample or something.
fgimian
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2446 posts since 13 Jul, 2005, from Australia

Postby fgimian; Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:21 am

jupiter8 wrote:
soundpalace wrote:Cool, I'll be sure to bug him about it :)

I have just been toying around with your awesome tool and cutting up some soundfont samples! I have created my first choir attempt for Zebra2 and it doesn't sound too bad :) Certainly a lot closer than most other synths I've tried imho.

Check it out
http://users.on.net/~djbros/Zebra2%20Boys%20Choir.mp3

Wow, that was amazing. I really liked that sound. Reminds me of an old Fairlight sample or something.


Thanks so much :) It's wonderful how musical Zebra2 sounds. By removing the unison and chorus, changing the envelopes and making a few more little adjustements, you can come up with completely new (entirely different sounding) presets. Here's the result:

http://users.on.net/~djbros/Zebra2%20Love%20Story.mp3

Your tool really opens a whole new world for Zebra2, I hope to get into it further over the next few days.

Thanks again for all your help :)
billstei
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595 posts since 20 Jan, 2006

Postby billstei; Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:49 am

soundpalace wrote:Cool, I'll be sure to bug him about it :)

I have just been toying around with your awesome tool and cutting up some soundfont samples! I have created my first choir attempt for Zebra2 and it doesn't sound too bad :) Certainly a lot closer than most other synths I've tried imho.

Check it out
http://users.on.net/~djbros/Zebra2%20Boys%20Choir.mp3


That was so good I almost confessed my sins to a VST.
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