Zebra3 Info

[mabian]

My first post was not made to leave you in awe of my brilliance.

I personally dont spend hours with zebra because I dont own it but yes hours of course are intangible but are valued higher than software because hours are a part of your life that you cant get back. I guess you are suggesting to not put a price on happiness which to me is ridiculous when it comes to computer software. I cant really be happy playing with a product knowing its creator made a thousand percent profit off of me. In the back of my mind I would feel scammed, especially so knowing that the overhead cost of writing software is very low.

If it works and makes me satisfied, giving me plenty of time of fun, I don't even try bothering with how much profit the developer makes out of it with me... But that's me I guess....

Why would other humans get angry with me when I suggest that the price might be to high, do you enjoy paying 10x more for one piece of software vs another?
Look at video games, on average they come out costing $60.00 and they still sell well, Indie games usually cost much less (U-he would be considered an indie developer) I see no justification in the pricing of music software for me it is extremely out of hand. Look at the synths on the ipad, on average they cost maybe $15, this proves there is no need for the high prices of software on computers.
I understand U-he has made some great free synths but does that elevate him/them above simple reproach?

Also lets not forget that the original price of Zebra was $150 (as long as you send a picture in, lie, and say 'im retiring my hardware for your software)So the price go's from $150 to $250? Is inflation that much out of control?

.. and also, do you really think that the figure of sales of videgames can be compared to those of a music plugin? As far as I know, we're talking of millions vs thousands, and this should tell much... even taking into account that a videogame *could* involve many, many more hours and people.

Peace,
Mario

[Urs]

If I buy the Dark Zebra expansion, I will get Zebra 3 also when it comes out?
i don't see any mention of this on your Dark Zebra page.

Yep, once - and if ever - Zebra3 comes out

Hua ?

"If ever" ?

Hey. I explained it in the next paragraph

It's my simplified way of saying "can't say when", triggered by the notion that things move really, really slowly.

[Tp3]

If I buy the Dark Zebra expansion, I will get Zebra 3 also when it comes out?
i don't see any mention of this on your Dark Zebra page.

Yep, once - and if ever - Zebra3 comes out

Hua ?

"If ever" ?

Hey. I explained it in the next paragraph

It's my simplified way of saying "can't say when", triggered by the notion that things move really, really slowly.

Ooops.... I'm sorry.

My bad.

I was hooked on the literal meaning of "If ever".

I DID read the "I say 'if ever' because we haven't the slightest clue when this will happen" but could not stop myself from interpreting the "if ever" as "if it will ever see the light" (which is countering what I know...).

No need to get mad

[ThoughtExperiment]

My first post was not made to leave you in awe of my brilliance...

Mission accomplished then

[Emanresu]

Oh, I have a suggestion: lets indie U-he sets up the price of Z3 to $150 with upgrade cost of -$30 (yes, minus) for the owners of Z2.

Emanresu
Z3 will have the sound quality equal (or better) to Diva, character of the sound will differ, yes, but the possibilities of Z3 will be much bigger than Diva has, so it is reasonable that the price will be 39% higher.

Im defiantly a fan of Diva, I didn't know that Zebra 3 would have the same character and sound quality as Diva (this is not mentioned in the first post)
What you are claiming Zebra 3 will sound like sounds very interesting but for another $150 I can get Komplete 9 (not that I want it Im just throwing an example out there)
I just don't see why the price needs to go up $100 and I also feel the people In the audio world are to afraid to critique decisions made by developers.

Users felt like they were about to get scammed with the ps4 and xbox one so they critiqued the decision making of both company's and eventually the people got what they wanted. Its not like Im punching the people at U-he in the face, I hope they are happy for the rest of their lives, I just wanted to bring up a simple question even if it is a bit of an awkward one for a developer to answer. If Im thinking it other users will think it. Reporters ask awkward questions that people want to know all the time without wishing any harm,they just want answers. As a person who believes in critical thinking and free though I feel its fine for regular people to do the same.

Does the price really need to go up $100?

@ EvilDragon Chill out strong man, just because you like some ones product does not mean you have to have your lips against there ass at all times.

[chilly7]

Indeed, not a brilliant first post... are the hours you spend with Zebra and the results you get with it intangible? Then go on and just pay 5x / 10 x its price for an hardware synth that has only a part of the tweaking possiblities, flexibility and sound quality that Zebra2 offers..

As wonshu said earlier, the concept of virtual and intangible is somehow to be revisited here...

Peace,
Mario

My first post was not made to leave you in awe of my brilliance.

I personally dont spend hours with zebra because I dont own it but yes hours of course are intangible but are valued higher than software because hours are a part of your life that you cant get back. I guess you are suggesting to not put a price on happiness which to me is ridiculous when it comes to computer software. I cant really be happy playing with a product knowing its creator made a thousand percent profit off of me. In the back of my mind I would feel scammed, especially so knowing that the overhead cost of writing software is very low.

Why would other humans get angry with me when I suggest that the price might be to high, do you enjoy paying 10x more for one piece of software vs another?
Look at video games, on average they come out costing $60.00 and they still sell well, Indie games usually cost much less (U-he would be considered an indie developer) I see no justification in the pricing of music software for me it is extremely out of hand. Look at the synths on the ipad, on average they cost maybe $15, this proves there is no need for the high prices of software on computers.
I understand U-he has made some great free synths but does that elevate him/them above simple reproach?

Also lets not forget that the original price of Zebra was $150 (as long as you send a picture in, lie, and say 'im retiring my hardware for your software)So the price go's from $150 to $250? Is inflation that much out of control?

Uhe might be an idie company, but products they make are not indie at all, in fakt they are high end and i do not want that Uhe compromise their quality just because some badroom musicians or who play at wedding partys musicians complain ...

[Emanresu]

Indeed, not a brilliant first post... are the hours you spend with Zebra and the results you get with it intangible? Then go on and just pay 5x / 10 x its price for an hardware synth that has only a part of the tweaking possiblities, flexibility and sound quality that Zebra2 offers..

As wonshu said earlier, the concept of virtual and intangible is somehow to be revisited here...

Peace,
Mario

My first post was not made to leave you in awe of my brilliance.

I personally dont spend hours with zebra because I dont own it but yes hours of course are intangible but are valued higher than software because hours are a part of your life that you cant get back. I guess you are suggesting to not put a price on happiness which to me is ridiculous when it comes to computer software. I cant really be happy playing with a product knowing its creator made a thousand percent profit off of me. In the back of my mind I would feel scammed, especially so knowing that the overhead cost of writing software is very low.

Why would other humans get angry with me when I suggest that the price might be to high, do you enjoy paying 10x more for one piece of software vs another?
Look at video games, on average they come out costing $60.00 and they still sell well, Indie games usually cost much less (U-he would be considered an indie developer) I see no justification in the pricing of music software for me it is extremely out of hand. Look at the synths on the ipad, on average they cost maybe $15, this proves there is no need for the high prices of software on computers.
I understand U-he has made some great free synths but does that elevate him/them above simple reproach?

Also lets not forget that the original price of Zebra was $150 (as long as you send a picture in, lie, and say 'im retiring my hardware for your software)So the price go's from $150 to $250? Is inflation that much out of control?

Uhe might be an idie company, but products they make are not indie at all, in fakt they are high end and i do not want that Uhe compromise their quality just because some badroom musicians or who play at wedding partys musicians complain ...

Thank you for the insight chilly7, "in fakt" I agree and also dont want some "badroom" musician to compromise u-he's quality. "in fakt" I never mentioned them compromising their quality.
I feel we might have a lot in common because like yourself I get annoyed with people who play "badrooms" and people who play wedding party's. I feel they should chose a proper venue and stick with one. Chose either the badroom or the wedding party ffs but stop forcing people to compromise their software. What I did want to know was why it was necessary for them to raise the price of Zebra.

[cuppa]

the first post may not have been brilliant but this one surely was...

[Urs]

What I did want to know was why it was necessary for them to raise the price of Zebra.

It is our decision to do so.

For Zebra3 we intend to rewrite every single module. We intend to add new functionality and drop dead ends. Unfortunately we can't just somehow "transform" Zebra2 into this, it would break backwards compatibility. Thus we need to leave Zebra2 untouched, and build Zebra3 fresh.

It won't just be an update, it'll be a whole new synth. It'll have a lot of new features and we expect about a year of work to go into this - for a team twice a large as the one that did Diva. The expense is going to be considerable, hence we'll charge more.

- Urs

[ThoughtExperiment]

the first post may not have been brilliant but this one surely was...

Hmmm I wonder if Emanresu might be a bit of Llort?

[bftucker]

the first post may not have been brilliant but this one surely was...

That is why I read posts on KVR...the brilliance of the comments.

All he wants to know is, "...why it was necessary for them to raise the price of Zebra."

Necessary is an interesting choice of words...

Price in relationship to value is also an interesting and very complex debate. Until Zebra 3 comes out, it will be hard to say what it is worth--which means what it will be worth to me (or you, for that matter). I assume the proposed pricing reflects what U-He thinks it will be worth (given a host of factors). Value is entirely subjective...U-He thinks it will be worth all the resources they are expending to develop it or worth it in comparison to what else is available, for example.

Given the company's history, I will probably agree!

___

[beely]

It won't just be an update, it'll be a whole new synth. It'll have a lot of new features and we expect about a year of work to go into this - for a team twice a large as the one that did Diva. The expense is going to be considerable, hence we'll charge more.

Hopefully you will charge more for the Z2 to Z3 update price as well. Zebra upgrade prices (eg, from Z1 to Z2 etc) have (in my possibly unpopular opinion) been *too* reasonable - I understand the desire to not fleece existing customers and it's good for goodwill etc but also we should be happy to pay reasonably for better tools, and I certainly am.

[Painmooser]

What I did want to know was why it was necessary for them to raise the price of Zebra.

I think if it wasnt neccessary they didnt do it.. you dont just change prices with the weather.
but what you really wanted to hear wasnt some financial numbers with taxes and forecasts right?
My guess: it was maybe to allow Z3 to have some new features that makes it more superiour - and still have the other synths for different stuff.
What I am saying: zebra is the flagship - it must be a little more expensive and more versatile..
And people that paid for Dark Zebra get the benefit now. If they hadnt increased the price - then buying dark zebra (with z3 having all those features later anyway) was not a good investment.
And u-he wants their parts always to be a good investment - so buyers have not to think about.

[bftucker]

It won't just be an update, it'll be a whole new synth. It'll have a lot of new features and we expect about a year of work to go into this - for a team twice a large as the one that did Diva. The expense is going to be considerable, hence we'll charge more.

Hopefully you will charge more for the Z2 to Z3 update price as well. Zebra upgrade prices (eg, from Z1 to Z2 etc) have (in my possibly unpopular opinion) been *too* reasonable

Shhhh...

If you feel like paying even more, donate the extra to a worthy cause in U-He's name.

____

[chilly7]

Indeed, not a brilliant first post... are the hours you spend with Zebra and the results you get with it intangible? Then go on and just pay 5x / 10 x its price for an hardware synth that has only a part of the tweaking possiblities, flexibility and sound quality that Zebra2 offers..

As wonshu said earlier, the concept of virtual and intangible is somehow to be revisited here...

Peace,
Mario

My first post was not made to leave you in awe of my brilliance.

I personally dont spend hours with zebra because I dont own it but yes hours of course are intangible but are valued higher than software because hours are a part of your life that you cant get back. I guess you are suggesting to not put a price on happiness which to me is ridiculous when it comes to computer software. I cant really be happy playing with a product knowing its creator made a thousand percent profit off of me. In the back of my mind I would feel scammed, especially so knowing that the overhead cost of writing software is very low.

Why would other humans get angry with me when I suggest that the price might be to high, do you enjoy paying 10x more for one piece of software vs another?
Look at video games, on average they come out costing $60.00 and they still sell well, Indie games usually cost much less (U-he would be considered an indie developer) I see no justification in the pricing of music software for me it is extremely out of hand. Look at the synths on the ipad, on average they cost maybe $15, this proves there is no need for the high prices of software on computers.
I understand U-he has made some great free synths but does that elevate him/them above simple reproach?

Also lets not forget that the original price of Zebra was $150 (as long as you send a picture in, lie, and say 'im retiring my hardware for your software)So the price go's from $150 to $250? Is inflation that much out of control?

Uhe might be an idie company, but products they make are not indie at all, in fakt they are high end and i do not want that Uhe compromise their quality just because some badroom musicians or who play at wedding partys musicians complain ...

Thank you for the insight chilly7, "in fakt" I agree and also dont want some "badroom" musician to compromise u-he's quality. "in fakt" I never mentioned them compromising their quality.
I feel we might have a lot in common because like yourself I get annoyed with people who play "badrooms" and people who play wedding party's. I feel they should chose a proper venue and stick with one. Chose either the badroom or the wedding party ffs but stop forcing people to compromise their software. What I did want to know was why it was necessary for them to raise the price of Zebra.

I am pretty shure Uhe is not a scam company, so if they rise a price it is for a reason.

I think the one on the reasons can be that they want to bring Diva quality to Zebra.
Zebra is complex synthesizer, so Zebra can be not just quanity but also quality

P.s.
This is exectly what i was asking from Uhe a while ago but did not get a positive answer on that from Uhe, but now i am happy they changed their mind.