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Zebra3 Info

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Urs
u-he
 
21597 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:35 am Re: Zebra3 Info

david.beholder wrote:
teilo wrote:What are you defining as "true mono behavior"? Zebra2, Diva, Bazille, Ace, and Hive all have Mono modes: Retrigger/Mono, Legato, Duo/Duophonic.

True mono behavior is when you have 1 voice in mono mode. All mentioned above synths has at least 2 voices in mono mode and alternating them.
There are lot of small and medium sized things connected to this difference.

Check out the Diva 1.4.2 beta - it's fixed there. Bazille (catch) and Hive (flow) have oscillator phase reset modes that mimic free running oscillators in mono synths very well.
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david.beholder
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1352 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:15 pm Re: Zebra3 Info

Urs wrote:Check out the Diva 1.4.2 beta - it's fixed there. Bazille (catch) and Hive (flow) have oscillator phase reset modes that mimic free running oscillators in mono synths very well.

Thanks. It wasn't actually a complain but more question: I always thought that make mono is easier to do than mono in poly, especially in case of tied notes etc.
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Urs
u-he
 
21597 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:05 am Re: Zebra3 Info

david.beholder wrote:
Urs wrote:Check out the Diva 1.4.2 beta - it's fixed there. Bazille (catch) and Hive (flow) have oscillator phase reset modes that mimic free running oscillators in mono synths very well.

Thanks. It wasn't actually a complain but more question: I always thought that make mono is easier to do than mono in poly, especially in case of tied notes etc.

Yes and no. Everything needs to be adapted to two cases - one where voices get "stolen" and one where voices continue directly - which some people find awkward in poly, even though analogue polys always do that (exception being Korg Minilogue, apparently, which just clicks). It's not just oscillators, it's envelopes, and pretty much anything that has modulation, parameter smoothing and what not, all of which needs to behave in one way and the other.
jme-audio
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76 posts since 7 Nov, 2011

Postby jme-audio; Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:45 pm Re: Zebra3 Info

This catch/flow Mode from Bazille/Hive would be on top of my Zebra3-Wishlist too,
as well as Ratio-Tuning for FMO and OSC as alternate to semitone.

Regarding FM, I also find, that the current four parametric envelopes are the bare minimum.
I am more into twisting knobs than into drawing MSEG and when using the four parametric envelopes on the four FMO there is none left for f.e. filters. If we also count regular OSC as helpers for doing f.e. 6 Op-FM, this becomes even more noticeable.
Last edited by jme-audio on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Urs
u-he
 
21597 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:57 pm Re: Zebra3 Info

jme-audio wrote:This catch/flow Mode from Bazille/Hive would be on top of my Zebra3-Wishlist too,
as well as Ratio-Tuning for FMO and OSC as alternate to semitone.

Yep, I'm sure we'll have that!
Regarding FM, I also find, that the current four parametric envelopes are the bare minimum.
I am more into twisting knobs than into drawing MSED and when using the four parametric envelopes on the four FMO there is none left for f.e. filters. If we also count regular OSC as helpers for doing f.e. 6 Op-FM, this becomes even more noticeable.

I want to keep it at "4 of each", but add West-Coast-style function generators. These are simple AR/ASR envelopes which can optionally loop. Modes are typically /\ /¯\ and /\/\/\, controlled by two knobs. Their simplicity however lends itself to a galore of modulation options, including continuous control over curvature (exp/lin), key tracking and what not. It's no coincidence that the most popular Eurorack module of recent years ("Maths" by Make Noise) is such a function generator.

IMHO these will be perfect for FM.
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david.beholder
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1352 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:01 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Urs wrote:I want to keep it at "4 of each"

May be Zebra III need '6 of each' and it means that it's '2*version' of each?

I actually also have question (not complain or suggestion) why have such limitation for modulators in 2017?
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Urs
u-he
 
21597 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:21 am Re: Zebra3 Info

david.beholder wrote:
Urs wrote:I want to keep it at "4 of each"

May be Zebra III need '6 of each' and it means that it's '2*version' of each?

I actually also have question (not complain or suggestion) why have such limitation for modulators in 2017?

Beause I sincerely believe that, encouraging people to bloat patches by "as much as you ever need" degrades overall patch quality.

Zebra is and has always been about economic use of resources. As in, if reusing what you got doesn't get you there, it might not get you there even if you have more of it.

Hans Zimmer has persuaded me to add four more MSEGs to his version (which I hope to release too), but that is because Howard and him have reached a level of sound design in Zebra which is beyond my imagination (think recreating the sound of mechanics in a tic toc watch and making these various envelope curves the foundation of a whole lot of sounds to rule a 2 hour score). And yet I believe that it would have been better to just add MSEG-style functionality to LFOs instead.
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david.beholder
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1352 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:27 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Urs wrote:Beause I sincerely believe that, encouraging people to bloat patches by "as much as you ever need" degrades overall patch quality.
Zebra is and has always been about economic use of resources. As in, if reusing what you got doesn't get you there, it might not get you there even if you have more of it.

But in case of FM it's not about 'as much as you need' it's about convenience: for n-op FM people are obviously expecting n+2 envelopes.

I'm under impression that Z2 is using dynamic resource allocation and wasting no cpu cycles on running unused componenets.

Hans Zimmer has persuaded me to add four more MSEGs to his version (which I hope to release too), but that is because Howard and him have reached a level of sound design in Zebra which is beyond my imagination (think recreating the sound of mechanics in a tic toc watch and making these various envelope curves the foundation of a whole lot of sounds to rule a 2 hour score). And yet I believe that it would have been better to just add MSEG-style functionality to LFOs instead.

Short summary: Quod licet Howie, non licet bovi :)

My 2c: I don't think 'less is more' is formula applicable everywhere. But I would prefer to have 20 mod slots and decide what particular modulators I want to use instead of having X of each (it is limiting for no reason). It would also help avoid chimeras like LFO-user because you don't need to have all in one anymore.
Last edited by david.beholder on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jme-audio
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76 posts since 7 Nov, 2011

Postby jme-audio; Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:27 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Cool, I am looking forward to these Function Generators. That will be pretty interesting.

While I agree that less is more in most cases. I think, many people see Zebra as the can-do-everything workhorse, a kind of experimentation magic kit. Then with so many diverse modules, creativity should not be restricted to just simple patches.

Sure, when you build a lego house, you could use some bricks of a wrong color too here and there to reach your goal, but having one or two bricks more of that colour would be more coherent.
Its not about having no limits, but about a little more freedom and envelope coherence.

However, maybe you could merge ENV and FUNGEN into one ENV and let us have six of them?

Btw. I have Ryzen now for Diva, so Zebras resource usage is no problem either.
Last edited by jme-audio on Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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david.beholder
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1352 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 am Re: Zebra3 Info

jme-audio wrote:However, maybe you could merge OSC and FMO into one OSC

Suggested the same couple pages ago.

jme-audio wrote:Btw. I have Ryzen now for Diva, so Zebras resource usage is no problem either.

Do you have AMD Ryzen 7 or Threadripper?
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jme-audio
KVRist
 
76 posts since 7 Nov, 2011

Postby jme-audio; Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:06 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Ah, did not see this. I have edited my post now and removed that. I have a 1800X.
Last edited by jme-audio on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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david.beholder
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1352 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:18 am Re: Zebra3 Info

jme-audio wrote:Ah, did not see this.

There were reply from Urs and this idea doesn't look doomed.

jme-audio wrote:I have a 1800X.

How good is performance? What is your impressions.
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jme-audio
KVRist
 
76 posts since 7 Nov, 2011

Postby jme-audio; Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:40 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Yes, thanks to your hint, I have read about it. He will make FM optional in the OSC and make a special complex FMO too. Sounds great to me!
The CPU has superb performance, I don't have any numbers for you. But it has also some issues: 1. it reports the temperature 10° higher than it really is, 2. cooling with Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 in a way that the temperature stays constant is still too loud for my taste. I prefer it totally silent and the noise level is still moderate (like the sound of typical low cost office pc). So that is disappointing, but the huge performance of course compensates this, so I would probably buy it again.
Well, thats enough Off-Topic for now, no more CPU questions, please.
Howard
KVRAF
 
3445 posts since 23 May, 2004, from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Postby Howard; Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:51 am Re: Zebra3 Info

Urs wrote:I sincerely believe that encouraging people to bloat patches by "as much as you ever need" degrades overall patch quality.

:clap: :tu:
Howard
KVRAF
 
3445 posts since 23 May, 2004, from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Postby Howard; Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:58 am Re: Zebra3 Info

jme-audio wrote:I think, many people see Zebra as the can-do-everything workhorse, a kind of experimentation magic kit. Then with so many diverse modules, creativity should not be restricted to just simple patches.

I never felt that Zebra2 restricted creativity by forcing us to make "just simple patches" ;-)
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