u-he SATIN as Reason Rack Extension?
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
+1
- KVRAF
- 2288 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Nom..nom.. YOUR MOM
Alas, it will always remain a dream I'm afraid. As Urs said earlier:V0RT3X wrote:I think something like Bazille and Ace would fit very well into the Reason Rack.
Of course i can only dream..
Furthermore, cables are still confined to the backside, which rules out an ACE RE or a Bazille RE.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
- KVRAF
- 2031 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
The madness of dangling cable spaghetti gets bad enough on the backside as it is. On 2D interface front ends they're even more of a cluttery mess. This is one of least appealing byproducts of obsessive analog emulation to me. I greatly prefer Thor or Zebra's UI approach to modular style synthesis over something like ACE (it sounds great though).
- KVRAF
- 25393 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
In Zebra there are fewer types of modulation sources and those sources are generally more complex.Tronam wrote:The madness of dangling cable spaghetti gets bad enough on the backside as it is. On 2D interface front ends they're even more of a cluttery mess. This is one of least appealing byproducts of obsessive analog emulation to me. I greatly prefer Thor or Zebra's UI approach to modular style synthesis over something like ACE (it sounds great though).
In Bazille, I may have an LFO going to a rectifier, to the quantizer and then a lag generator before finally modulating filter cutoff. (Zebra use an MSEG)... That is easier to visually see with the wires than a bunch of drop down menus pointing from source to source. Especially since you can create feedback loops in Bazille.
Zebra does not do feedback loops between modules... any feedback is hardwired in the module itself (XMF Filter).
Both ACE and Bazille can do complex networks of modulation not possible in Zebra.
What you are seeing as obsessive analog emulation, is I think a better method for visually displaying such complex networks on the GUI itself than how it is done in Zebra. Different functionality calls for different solutions.
- KVRAF
- 2288 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Nom..nom.. YOUR MOM
I'm in agreement there. This is one of the reasons why I enjoy the rear rack of Reason so much. Looking at CV and audio cables and where they go is such an easier way for me to understand routing. In fact, I loathe right-click menus. The way Thor handles it is pretty cool, but seems limited by the 9U space it occupies.pdxindy wrote:What you are seeing as obsessive analog emulation, is I think a better method for visually displaying such complex networks on the GUI itself than how it is done in Zebra. Different functionality calls for different solutions.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770 @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro| Akai MPC Live II & Akai Force | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland MX-1 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
- KVRAF
- 2031 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
I understand that, but I much prefer other methods of visualizing routed connections. Circle or Massive come to mind. Or maybe even colored lines that neatly connect two points without obscuring the other interface elements.
- KVRAF
- 25393 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
You prefer those other methods for synths that are very different than Bazille. If you translated it over to Bazille, I think it would be worse than the wires...Tronam wrote:I understand that, but I much prefer other methods of visualizing routed connections. Circle or Massive come to mind. Or maybe even colored lines that neatly connect two points without obscuring the other interface elements.
Take Massive as an example... Suppose that Filter Cutoff is modulated by Env 1... Then to see if something is modulating Env 1, I have to go click on the Env 1 tab. There I see that Env 1 attack time is modulated by LFO 6. Then I have to click on the LFO 6 tab to see if something is modulating that. Massive gets clumsy quickly.
In Bazille, I can see all that at a glance without going through tabs. Bazille is faster/easier to comprehend the structure at one look.
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- KVRian
- 764 posts since 2 Jun, 2004
I think that Madrona Labs Aalto and Kaivo have a different, yet fresh, approach to visual routing. There's also another solution that would omit cables yet keep a similar "directness" to it.
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- KVRian
- 764 posts since 2 Jun, 2004
Thor can do a lot of that stuff including feedback loops between modules and I'm pretty content with having that stuff in the mod matrix. Horses for courses, I guess.pdxindy wrote:Zebra does not do feedback loops between modules... any feedback is hardwired in the module itself (XMF Filter).
Both ACE and Bazille can do complex networks of modulation not possible in Zebra.
What you are seeing as obsessive analog emulation, is I think a better method for visually displaying such complex networks on the GUI itself than how it is done in Zebra. Different functionality calls for different solutions.
- KVRAF
- 25393 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Yeah, I like their approach... It works for their synths. Would it work for Bazille?eXode wrote:I think that Madrona Labs Aalto and Kaivo have a different, yet fresh, approach to visual routing. There's also another solution that would omit cables yet keep a similar "directness" to it.
Kaivo has 16 outputs and 44 inputs... Kaivo also has a fixed audio path...
Bazille has 54 outputs and 60 inputs (more coming)... In Bazille the audio path can be wired however you want and it has nearly 3x the # of modules
I think the easy solution in Bazille is just to have thinner cables... then they are less obtrusive. Bazille as is, is just a rough alpha without a finished gui...
- KVRAF
- 25393 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Of course, you are entirely welcome to like what you likeeXode wrote:Thor can do a lot of that stuff including feedback loops between modules and I'm pretty content with having that stuff in the mod matrix. Horses for courses, I guess.pdxindy wrote:Zebra does not do feedback loops between modules... any feedback is hardwired in the module itself (XMF Filter).
Both ACE and Bazille can do complex networks of modulation not possible in Zebra.
What you are seeing as obsessive analog emulation, is I think a better method for visually displaying such complex networks on the GUI itself than how it is done in Zebra. Different functionality calls for different solutions.
I find mod matrices difficult to follow when one starts having complex networks with various slots modulating other slots. It quickly becomes hard for me to visualize... Especially in synths with multiple matrix tabs
Anyway, my main point is not to say one is necessarily better in all circumstances, but that there are also strengths to the wires and they are not just an affectation of trying to look like hardware.
- KVRAF
- 2031 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Seattle, WA - USA
I like cables, but what I don't think translates particularly well from hardware over to the flat screen is having them crisscrossing all over the main interface's knobs, buttons and sliders. It works for me in Reason because they're relegated to the back panel. To be clear though, this is all just a matter of personal taste. Korg's MS-20 is probably the compromise that appeals to me most with its dedicated matrix panel. Since Reason supports multiple racks now, one interesting route PH could take would be to allow them to be flipped independent of one another or perhaps REs could even open as two separate panels side-by-side with a full cabling matrix in an adjacent rack.
- KVRAF
- 4122 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
There will be more cable width and transparency options.pdxindy wrote:I think the easy solution in Bazille is just to have thinner cables... then they are less obtrusive. Bazille as is, is just a rough alpha without a finished gui...
- u-he
- 28062 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hehehe, that's only for audio signals. Modulation signals can have feedback loops all over the place in Zebra, albeit not latency free ones (they update in the kilohertz range though - which is usually good enough for modulation)pdxindy wrote:Zebra does not do feedback loops between modules... any feedback is hardwired in the module itself (XMF Filter).