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VST3 - known issues (Updated info!)

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Urs
u-he
 
21155 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:50 am VST3 - known issues (Updated info!)

Update March 4th 2016:

A preliminary version of our VST3 rewrite has gone in internal beta testing today. It is supposed to resolve all stability problems that we had with VST3. As promised, the VST3 rewrite was the main priority after the big maintenance update we did in August, and it looks like it's nearly done.

However, as of now we are going to handle MIDI Learn differently in VST3 than in other formats. VST3 does not directly support MIDI input for plug-ins, but parameters can be assigned to MIDI controllers. This is cool, but it doesn't let us perform MIDI learn. So far we used a workaround (i.e. assign 128 x 16 "fake parameters" to MIDI controllers), but as VST3 evolves we think it won't be necessary for much longer. Hence we might temporarily provide MIDI assignments only via the list editor in our new VST3 layer.

We'll keep you posted!

- Urs

#---- original post below ----

Hi all,

It's a bit more than half a year since we first released VST3 versions of pretty much all our plug-ins.

In the aftermath we must admit that we've been too ambitious with this. There's always a niggle left and fixing that niggle brings up a new problem with side effects. The reason is, we tried to support the VST3 feature of full separation between UI and DSP. This has worked well for us in AU and AAX, but we messed up in VST3. That's because VST3 requires a plug-in to be able to communicate with short breaks between those two parts. We only thought we had that problem covered but alas, over time it dawned on us that this is more complicated than we ever thought. And then it was too late…

We know by now that (excerpt from our bug tracker):

- VST3-Versions don't report parameters on preset changes
- VST3s show Symbols instead of registration info in Wavelab
- VST3 Plugins crash FL 11 beta
- VST3 Plugins don't show selected Patch name when project is re-opened

the list goes on...

So a decision was made, we need to rewrite the VST3 layer with a "simplified" version of VST3 that is thankfully included in the VST3 SDK from Steinberg. This version does not strictly separate GUI and DSP part, and after some talk with people who sit in the same boat, this is supposed to fix our problems.

Unfortunately this means considerable work and testing. We'll try to do this early in 2014.

Until then we recommend to use our VST2 versions whenever possible. They behave and sound the same, and they're pretty tried and tested.

Cheers,

- Urs

[Update: Early in 2014 wasn't possible. The developer in charge with VST3 left us in December 2013 and we yet have to replace him. Training a new developer to the point that is required for the task will take several months]
chk071
KVRAF
 
13494 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:25 am

That must be why the Novation V-Station 2.0 VST3 is hopelessly broken too...
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Urs
u-he
 
21155 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:29 am

chk071 wrote:That must be why the Novation V-Station 2.0 VST3 is hopelessly broken too...

I can't say. But for us it was kind of a trip. We implemented workaround after workaround until we realised that the underlying problem is something that's simply too complex to be fixed. Which obviously is something Steinberg recognized too when they added the "simplified" flavor.
electro
KVRAF
 
4185 posts since 5 May, 2002

Postby electro; Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:03 am

What is this VST3 flaw? Does it affect only Synths or insert FX also?
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Urs
u-he
 
21155 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:09 am

electro wrote:What is this VST3 flaw? Does it affect only Synths or insert FX also?

The flaw is an ongoing struggle with bugs that people report affecting only the VST3 versions of our plug-ins. We fix one, another one pops up. Pretty much all VST3-specific ones are related to the way of communication between UI and DSP within a VST3 plug-in.
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Phil999
KVRist
 
213 posts since 26 Sep, 2013, from Cavardiras, CH

Postby Phil999; Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:10 am

good move, thank you for the information. And enjoy a bit of free time, holiday, etc.
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chilly7
KVRian
 
655 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth

Postby chilly7; Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:42 am

So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...
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SJ_Digriz
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4605 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:03 am

chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Because Steinberg have stopped support of VST2.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
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Urs
u-he
 
21155 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:04 am

chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Firstly people asked for it, secondly, we have only recently found out how to do VST2 64 bit on Mac without headaches. At that time we had VST3 working already.
chilly7
KVRian
 
655 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth

Postby chilly7; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:05 am

SJ_Digriz wrote:
chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Because Steinberg have stopped support of VST2.


Oh i forgot this is yamaha. idiots, they care only about money and nothing else...
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SJ_Digriz
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4605 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:09 am

chilly7 wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:
chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Because Steinberg have stopped support of VST2.


Oh i forgot this is yamaha. idiots, they care only about money and nothing else...

That isn't necessarily true. All specs should grow and mature and deprecate older versions. The problem in this case seems to be for every good thing, detect use, note expression, sidechain etc... there are a bunch of wacky stuff that pissed off the dev community, MIDI handling etc...
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
chilly7
KVRian
 
655 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth

Postby chilly7; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:10 am

Urs wrote:
chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Firstly people asked for it, secondly, we have only recently found out how to do VST2 64 bit on Mac without headaches. At that time we had VST3 working already.


I know many people use AU on mac, so what is the point of VST 3 on Mac then?
I cannot find a clear answer on this question too.

Thank u
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chilly7
KVRian
 
655 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth

Postby chilly7; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:11 am

SJ_Digriz wrote:
chilly7 wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:
chilly7 wrote:So what is the point of making VST 3 if VST2 is good?
I am using only AU so sorry if i miss something...

Because Steinberg have stopped support of VST2.


Oh i forgot this is yamaha. idiots, they care only about money and nothing else...

That isn't necessarily true. All specs should grow and mature and deprecate older versions. The problem in this case seems to be for every good thing, detect use, note expression, sidechain etc... there are a bunch of wacky stuff that pissed off the dev community, MIDI handling etc...


I see
Web site of my master: http://давайте-жить-по-совести.рф
Music of my master: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 91BsW4eMrQ
My Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sashawholovesGod
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
4605 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Postby SJ_Digriz; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:17 am

My personal experience as a non-VST dev, but like to play with this stuff ... I figured out VST2 on my own in about 2 hours. Not saying I had a deep understanding, but I could create plugin projects with rudimentary control setups and manage the audio stream fairly well. It made sense.

After a couple of days of twiddling, I find a lot of the VST3 SDK to be impenetrable, oddly laid out and really kind of a mystery for how to do the GUI vs data/stream management. It seems overly convoluted. I can create a plugin, but expected bahviors aren't obvious.

As a user, I want the upside of VST3. As a dev, I understand the frustration of the VST development community.
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.
Angus_FX
KVRAF
 
4599 posts since 17 Jul, 2002, from London, UK

Postby Angus_FX; Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:23 am

That isn't necessarily true. All specs should grow and mature and deprecate older versions.


Yeah, those 1/4in jacks are just too small nowadays. I want 1/3in jacks, and running at a higher voltage too. Why? Because I can. :)

Seriously though:

That isn't necessarily true. All specs should grow and mature and deprecate older versions.


The problem is that VST3 fulfils only one of those three criteria, namely that it deprecates VST2. It doesn't grow from the same root, and it's less mature, not more.
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