VST3 - known issues (Updated Jan 2019)

[AdmiralQuality]

If I was a beta tester, I would not only see on a daily basis, my issues, but other issues others experience.

I stand by my words.


Since there is no host that requires VST3, there is no real impetus for many developers to get cracking on vst3, I am sure if one day that changes and for an 'important' host, you will find this 'broken vst3' will suddenly have a lot more plugins.
rsp

So you'd rather have developers spending (massive amounts of) time reinventing wheels which formerly worked perfectly well but are forced obsolescent by the unilateral actions of one company?

I think, rather, what you'll see on that day is a massive migration of users away from that particular host, as well as a LOT of very legitimately PO'ed users. VST2.4 is not "broken", and "new" does not always mean "better".

[zvenx]

Or maybe they are no cracks in the foundation if done the right way, and some people are reluctant to change and currently there is no real reason to do so.

Look how all of a sudden AU64 became a priority for many who for years dragged their feet on it.

I beta test for many products, clearly wouldn't say which here, so my experiences are just limited to the experiences on my own system. a few of my 'friends' up above know I do too....I speak with quite a few developers on a daily basis, that some have issues with vst3 is clear, that some don't is always exceedingly clear to me.

Based on those interactions, I don't 'buy' that vst3 is inherently broken.

But this debate is going nowhere. I think Urs has said if/whenever there is time, he will try a completely different approach to vst3, hopefully that method will have completely different results.


rsp

[arakula]

Or maybe they are no cracks in the foundation if done the right way

Oh, there are. But since you've given the impression of being strictly a user and not an implementer, thus neither interested nor versed in the technical details, I'll leave it at that.

[zvenx]

If I was a beta tester, I would not only see on a daily basis, my issues, but other issues others experience.

I stand by my words.


Since there is no host that requires VST3, there is no real impetus for many developers to get cracking on vst3, I am sure if one day that changes and for an 'important' host, you will find this 'broken vst3' will suddenly have a lot more plugins.
rsp

So you'd rather have developers spending (massive amounts of) time reinventing wheels which formerly worked perfectly well but are forced obsolescent by the unilateral actions of one company?

I think, rather, what you'll see on that day is a massive migration of users away from that particular host, as well as a LOT of very legitimately PO'ed users. VST2.4 is not "broken", and "new" does not always mean "better".

You mean like how when Logic Pro X came out that required AU64 bit, like that kind of massive migration? What happened? some developers who were lagging in AU64bit all of a sudden announced they were working on 64bit versions on. There was no massive migration I am aware of, are you?

I can't tell a developer what their development priorities should be, I know I clearly have my wishes.
My argument wasn't debating the pros and cons of vst3, my argument was simple the evidence is not there that vst3 is inherently broken.
rsp

[zvenx]

Or maybe they are no cracks in the foundation if done the right way

Oh, there are. But since you've given the impression of being strictly a user and not an implementer, thus neither interested nor versed in the technical details, I'll leave it at that.

God has spoken,
thank you oh Lord.

Like I have clearly said, in beta testing I interact with developers and quite frankly other more technical versed users, your assertion that there are cracks in the foundation is not universally held.
rsp

[EvilDragon]

my argument was simple the evidence is not there that vst3 is inherently broken.
rsp

That's a very bad argument if you don't understand the level of undertaking that arakula is talking about to completely switch programming concepts between VST2 and VST3 (and these are not simple differences, they are very different concepts, so a simple recompile or a few lines tweak to compile a 32-bit plugin to a 64-bit plugin doesn't compare to porting VST2 to VST3 - it really depends on how the developer organized their own programming framework, it obviously doesn't work for u-he and some others).


Ask yourself why NI didnt' implement VST3 yet. They have a very good reason for it.

[arakula]

Confidentially, just from one God to another - sometimes, it can really be a pain in the a** to deal with these mere mortals, can't it?

[AdmiralQuality]

You mean like how when Logic Pro X came out that required AU64 bit, like that kind of massive migration? What happened? some developers who were lagging in AU64bit all of a sudden announced they were working on 64bit versions on. There was no massive migration I am aware of, are you?

...

Look how all of a sudden AU64 became a priority for many who for years dragged their feet on it.

Those two statements contradict each other.

Anyway, yes, spending years without a new release while we completely re-wrote our low level GUI system to support x64 on OSX was a lot of fun for us and very rewarding because we got to charge everyone who already owned the product for it again. (NOT!)

I can't tell a developer what their development priorities should be, I know I clearly have my wishes.
My argument wasn't debating the pros and cons of vst3, my argument was simple the evidence is not there that vst3 is inherently broken.
rsp

Yet that's exactly what you're doing. And you claim to know more than the developers you're arguing with about it, despite clearly being just a user. Any of us could spend countless (unpaid) hours walking you through what's wrong with VST3, but you're not qualified to understand what we're communicating. (This info can also already readily be found out there on the web; on the VST development email list as well as the Development board here for two really good places to start.)

Marketing B.S. doesn't work on us. We need to get results or we end up with legitimately unhappy customers.

[zvenx]

No, I am simply saying, that from my interactions with developers, that vst3 is inherently broken is not true.
if you don't want to implement vst3, good for you.

I don't see the contradiction you mention.
I was simply saying or trying to say, that once Logic stop using AU32 plugins, those who made only 32plugins had the motivation like never before to update their plugins to 64bit AU.

rsp

[zvenx]

my argument was simple the evidence is not there that vst3 is inherently broken.
rsp

That's a very bad argument if you don't understand the level of undertaking that arakula is talking about to completely switch programming concepts between VST2 and VST3 (and these are not simple differences, they are very different concepts, so a simple recompile or a few lines tweak to compile a 32-bit plugin to a 64-bit plugin doesn't compare to porting VST2 to VST3 - it really depends on how the developer organized their own programming framework, it obviously doesn't work for u-he and some others).
........

i wasn't saying whether it was an easy switch or not.
and many developers to switch to 64bit had way more than a lot of lines, some had to create a completely new framework...
once again and hopefully for the last time, my assertion based on constant interaction with many developers I test for, is that vst3 isn't inherently broken.

rsp

[Compyfox]

That some have issues don't mean that something is broken in vst3.

...that vst3 is inherently broken is not true

This definitely reminds me of the ongoing Steinberg discussions and resulting aversion towards certain users:
"I don't have these issues, you're wrong".


You're using AU, therefore Logic. Logic can use VST, but I don't know if it's also utilizing VST3.
Everything else you throw around is hearsay - so to speak and IMO of course.


The issues I report/know as beta tester mostly resolve around Wavelab (the infamous "Audio Forward Bug", reason is still not known), and those that resolve around CubEndo/StudioOne are mostly workarounds for faulty SDK implementations. Like I earlier wrote: what works in CubEndo doesn't necessarily work in StudioOne and visa versa.

I'm under NDA's, you as beta tester should know that rule. But let me tell you, being in touch with the devs on "Steinberg related stuff" is either absolute fun to read, or infuriating.


It's up to you to decide what is broken where. But according to the host developers, it's mostly a "3rd party fault". At least this is what I constantly got as answer once I got in touch with them.

[AdmiralQuality]

No, I am simply saying, that from my interactions with developers, that vst3 is inherently broken is not true.
if you don't want to implement vst3, good for you.

This developer says it is. As clearly do several others chiming in here.

I don't see the contradiction you mention.
I was simply saying or trying to say, that once Logic stop using AU32 plugins, those who made only 32plugins had the motivation like never before to update their plugins to 64bit AU.

rsp

And their customers paid for it. Either through being charged to buy the same-old product again or, more likely, by not seeing much in the way of new products from the companies forced to dedicate man-years of time to accommodating this forced, arbitrary change. (Which, again, doesn't even begin to compare to the change from VST2.4 to 3.x.)

You should maybe start a thread in a more public board about this. Again, all I wanted to do here is throw in a "me too" from another developer who couldn't have more respect for U-He's capabilities and competence. You claim there's no consensus, yet here we are!

[zvenx]

You know I don't use Logic or AU, I was using that as an example.

Very Proud Cubendo user here

In fairness, I have always heard grief with Wavelab, even from the first time I heard about it which was I think Wavelab 3......
and when I said steinberg products, I should have specifically said cubendo (and the halion stuff etc).
Have a nice day all. Even the two Gods here

rsp

[zvenx]

.......................

You should maybe start a thread in a more public board about this. Again, all I wanted to do here is throw in a "me too" from another developer who couldn't have more respect for U-He's capabilities and competence. You claim there's no consensus, yet here we are!

..............

I was claiming no unanimous consensus. If that wasn't clear my apologies.

But yeah, Steinberg isn't paying me.
I clearly am just a lowly end user , not a God.
and this debate has been going on on kvr for at least 3+ years.

take care

rsp

[AdmiralQuality]

and this debate has been going on on kvr for at least 3+ years.

Over 6 years, actually. And VST 3.x is still not ready for prime-time! (In my professional opinion, of course.)