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lunardigs
KVRist
 
56 posts since 6 Jun, 2016, from Austin, Texas

Postby lunardigs; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:18 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

U-he and OvertoneDSP earned my patronage due to their Linux builds (not their Linux support). As a result, I've bought nearly every major product from U-he and OvertoneDSP.

Yes, I appreciate the 'Linux distinction' is not a trivial offer. Yet, these companies didn't need to do much in this way to earn hundreds of dollars from me.

Had I known earlier about U-he and their Linux builds, my money would have been theirs at once. No joke.

When I filter plugins by "Linux" on KVR I am excluding literally HUNDREDS of other offerings. Again, isn't this an incredible opportunity? :)
mevla
KVRian
 
611 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Postby mevla; Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:13 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Yeah, that's a good opportunity in a way. Although I'm not using it, at least yet, there's the airwave thing there that might bring Windows plugins to Linux, although I have no idea if it works that good and, if it would work with the Windows plugins I would want.

Though I'm OK to stay within Linux. I also got the 'DAW Essentials' from Tracktion, which are Linux native. They just fixed an issue with Bitwig recently when I mentioned the bug, so they're alive on Linux, so to speak. I also got the Biotek synth from them, which is an original synth, with a lot of potential I think, especially with the Bitwig modulations. I was to get Waverazor but the Linux version seems to be on hold.

I got the DiscoDSP synths before they went in the Twilight Zone a couple of months ago. I use Discovery Pro from time to time. Sometimes it's like palying an electric fuzz guitar. Whereas the u-he synths most always remains polite, DP can rip it alright. Vertigo is not so nice, eg. complex additive synthesis with not so much of an intuitive UI. Bliss, I use for the samples library that comes with it. I also play with Redux from time to time.

This said, the main synths in day-to-day use are from u-he.

How many 'Linux musicians' are out there ? Making the Linux support official would tap into this potential.
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Lump
KVRist
 
287 posts since 19 Jun, 2004

Postby Lump; Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:39 am Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

I think that's why the most U-He builds for Linux have more an alpha or beta character, on the other side there is not that much motivation to make them official, because more support and other work intensive side effects. Linux have no priority, because the users of U-he plugins are a small special interest group within 1% market share amount of Linux as OS. And these 100 U-he VST Linux user worldwide are good informed with kvr and beta prepared.
[del]AudioLinux sucks.[/del]
mevla
KVRian
 
611 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Postby mevla; Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:31 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

A poll ran in the Bitwig forum earlier this year asking which OS are you using. The number of Linux users was very close to the Mac users.

Linux 26%
Mac 27%
Windows 47%

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... l#p6754574
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zvenx
KVRAF
 
5556 posts since 16 Feb, 2005, from Kingston, Jamaica

Postby zvenx; Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:13 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

yes saying that 42 ppl use Bitwig on Linux.
Hardly numbers to cause a direction change or judge profitability of linux for music creation.

Also:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/ ... tion-poll/

Quite frankly I think they are already so many DAWS on the two major platforms, Mac and PC that all have their idiosyncrasies and cause developers enough headaches to now worry about a third platform.
rsp
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lunardigs
KVRist
 
56 posts since 6 Jun, 2016, from Austin, Texas

Postby lunardigs; Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:51 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

I remember first hearing about Bitwig from Linux Journal (they do FOSS and non-FOSS "picks"). Within hours of demoing it, I knew I wanted it. At that time I was running Reaper upon Windows Vista (Win 8 was out, but wasn't going to upgrade--until forced to do so). Pro-audio was the last thing bounding me to Windows at that time; Bitwig came along and liberated me. I've been very happy ever since! ... Sounds silly, maybe, but that's what happened--voilà, the OS demographic shifts.

By the same token, once I discovered the U-he Linux Beta I went and bought nearly all their stuff!

Again, I don't believe all this wag-the-dog type stuff where I'm told Linux in not significant enough to dedicate efforts toward. Bitwig moved boldly on this, putting forth commendable effort and by which earned my dollar. If it had been another Win/Mac DAW, I wouldn't have bought it or cared. ... So then, where is that psychology modeled into your market share analysis? Moreover, if no one is making moves, waiting, what shift in the data would you expect to see? Remember, market share data is a snapshot of past behaviors, it's not a prediction of the future in any strict sense. However, if you want to use it to make future predictions, just remember, you're modeling the past to do so. Which is logical, yet somewhat silly and ironic, no?
mevla
KVRian
 
611 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Postby mevla; Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:06 am Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Same here, Bitwig was a creative liberation. I use Linux and Linux also brings bread and butter on the table, eg. I really use Linux all the way, not only as a side thing. Saw Bitwig and I knew it was a, ahem, 'sound' investment and immediately after I created the soundcloud page (links in signature) that is, about 1 1/2 year ago, with a creative boost. And, on top of that, the u-he synths and the fabulous soundsets made by all thsoe sound designers. When that happened I was seriously considering building another machine to have Windows and Kontakt/Reaktor.

There is a thing with supporting Linux in Germany. The years I lived there Linux magazines could be found in supermarkets. And not just one but a couple. And then the other computer magazines also had articles on Linux. Now with the print media vanishing, it could very well be that these are not found anymore when shopping for Bauernbrot, Wurst und Senf, but it shows there was/is a Linux wave. I do not know why exactly but I would say in general terms that it would have to do with the free technical opportunity Linux provides to curious minds of which there are a certain good number in Germany.

As for developing for multiple platforms, I'm almost certain u-he, and Bitwig, are proceeding the right way by decoupling as much as possible. What could be daunting is the fluidity of Linux distributions. Support 'Linux' is a very vague statement by itself. So it has to be narrowed down to specific distros and versions. And configuration. Even then, regular updates, of which the Linux distros are very proud of with reason, can change - even though it's quite rare - the underlying OS foundations. Software makers have to keep up with frequent OS updates neverthless.

Bitwig only distributes .deb files. So that's a start in narrowing down. They also I think specify one Linux OS, Ubuntu (I'm using a derivative with no problems and so far Bitwig support staff made no problem with that). Currently the u-he synth install is a script that runs on any verison, from Beyond Linux From Scratch systems to Arch, Gentoo, Fedora, SuSE (if they still exists), Debian unstable, etc... One thing u-he could do is to narrow down to one distro. Might be going against the Linux philosophy, but it certainly helps considering practical support.
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Urs
u-he
 
21165 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:37 am Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Well, it's a chicken and egg problem, isn't it?

We can only advertise & sell stuff if we can offer the same kind of support as for our Mac and Win stuff. However, we would need an additional developer and probably additional support staff, because our current staff just doesn't know the first thing about Linux. Thus, full commitment to Linux is also a commitment to 5% to 10% more spendings.

As we however consider people who use Linux a tad more tech savvy than people who use MacOS or Windows, we also think they might be able to live with the "eternal beta status" until we are able to hire a new developer, preferrably with Linux experience.

At the moment though, we realize that we need to get Abique back for a few days in because our recent refactoring job has killed the Linux build server. Which shows that it is to early for us to do the full switch.
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lunardigs
KVRist
 
56 posts since 6 Jun, 2016, from Austin, Texas

Postby lunardigs; Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:11 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Indeed ... many snares.

Nonetheless, your efforts are most commendable. Thank you, sincerely. :tu:

Sorry for the vitriol. I'm quite grateful, actually--and hopeful too!
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UltimateOutsider
KVRian
 
712 posts since 4 Oct, 2009, from Portland, OR

Postby UltimateOutsider; Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:45 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

zvenx wrote:What booming popularity btw?

I don't know about popularity, but I will say that the ONLY reason I don't use Linux at home is because most music tools/plugins/interfaces I use are still Mac/Windows only.

I don't trust Microsoft enough to create content on Windows 10, so I'm stuck on Win 7 or 8.1 until they no longer run on current hardware. But if Steinberg, Waves, NI and RME went Linux I would abandon Windows for Linux in a heartbeat. So much faster, simpler (architecturally), and more customizable.
ejgallego
KVRist
 
81 posts since 8 Mar, 2017

Postby ejgallego; Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:53 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Urs wrote:We can only advertise & sell stuff if we can offer the same kind of support as for our Mac and Win stuff.

Thanks for your comments and efforts in Linux support Urs. I do indeed think that Linux is far from being able to get the same support than Mac and Win; however, as you well have noted, IMVHO u-he could improve a bit more the advertising of their Linux offerings.

As you have well noted, many Linux users are tech savvy or may be willing to live with a less supported system. So something in the lines of advertising Linux support as only on "best-effort" basis could help. You could folks also add the Linux downloads to many pages, duly noting that these build are experimental "and use on your own".
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lunardigs
KVRist
 
56 posts since 6 Jun, 2016, from Austin, Texas

Postby lunardigs; Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:56 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

UltimateOutsider wrote:
zvenx wrote:What booming popularity btw?

I don't know about popularity, but I will say that the ONLY reason I don't use Linux at home is because most music tools/plugins/interfaces I use are still Mac/Windows only.

I don't trust Microsoft enough to create content on Windows 10, so I'm stuck on Win 7 or 8.1 until they no longer run on current hardware. But if Steinberg, Waves, NI and RME went Linux I would abandon Windows for Linux in a heartbeat. So much faster, simpler (architecturally), and more customizable.


I think many would. MS and Apple have had their run. They've purveyed their view of the world.

Just imagine if RME and NI, etc. moved on Linux. They'd own the Linux market overnight--for whatever it is now or will become. Period. This is what gets me; instead fear and uncertainty prevails.

A bigger question might be, how was this all sown? How is it everyone on earth is somehow bound to MS and Apple??

Heh. I remember a time when ANY Microsoft product key would unlock ANY Microsoft product. Sounds nuts, right? Does anyone else remember that? This was back in the '90s (I worked for CompUSA at that time). Then, moving into the new millennium, they methodically reigned it all in. Now days what do we have--MS product keys written to our BIOS with Secure Boot enforced (which takes direct aim at those wishing to run alternate operating systems)! ... Things have come a long way. None the least of which is people's tolerance.

I sincerely hope we come to our senses. This is not a political-football thing to me, where I choose to the red or blue team. It's really about freedom in my view.
steff3
KVRian
 
535 posts since 7 Oct, 2006

Postby steff3; Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:49 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

lunardigs wrote:How is it everyone on earth is somehow bound to MS and Apple??


Well, how is it that people use computers and operating systems which are not from the same provider?

With Mac and with Windows & Surface one can choose the tools one wants to use for music production / playing pretty much freely.
On Linux that cannot be said - I cannot use my preferred hardware, lots of software tools are not available, etc. And in the end - it is more expensive (means time-consuming) for an individual to use Linux IMHO. (Of course if getting computers to work is you main focus it does not matter)

There is not marketing department working for Linux I guess.

Just my thoughts
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lunardigs
KVRist
 
56 posts since 6 Jun, 2016, from Austin, Texas

Postby lunardigs; Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:24 pm Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

steff3 wrote:
lunardigs wrote:How is it everyone on earth is somehow bound to MS and Apple??


Well, how is it that people use computers and operating systems which are not from the same provider?

With Mac and with Windows & Surface one can choose the tools one wants to use for music production / playing pretty much freely.
On Linux that cannot be said - I cannot use my preferred hardware, lots of software tools are not available, etc. And in the end - it is more expensive (means time-consuming) for an individual to use Linux IMHO. (Of course if getting computers to work is you main focus it does not matter)

There is not marketing department working for Linux I guess.

Just my thoughts


:borg:
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tomsa
KVRist
 
185 posts since 6 Apr, 2014, from California

Postby tomsa; Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:30 am Re: Why Are the Linux Versions of U-He Products Hidden On the U-He Web Page

Urs wrote:...we would need an additional developer and probably additional support staff, because our current staff just doesn't know the first thing about Linux. Thus, full commitment to Linux is also a commitment to 5% to 10% more spendings.

...we realize that we need to get Abique back for a few days in because our recent refactoring job has killed the Linux build server. Which shows that it is to early for us to do the full switch.


Urs,

I really appreciate your honesty. Take your time to get it right. If your Beta builds continue to be of such great quality, your customers will still be here.

TS :tu:
...If you have to fix it with a computer: quantized, pitch corrected, and overly inspected, then you can't do it, and I can't get behind that!

-Henry Rollins; I Can't Get Behind That-from William Shatner's, "Has Been"
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