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Andrew John
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11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:25 pm Using Satin on every channel

Hi there.

I just bought Satin, I'm super stoked! :D It sounds amazing!

I have noticed a lot of people talk about always starting their channel insert chain with a tape emulation plugin. Steven Slate does this a lot and lots of people like to use plugins like the McDSP analog channel subtly on every channel to give an accumulative effect on the overall mix.

Does anybody have any suggestions for using Satin in a similar way? Possibly even suggest some settings or presets?

Thank you
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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
 
1930 posts since 11 May, 2011, from The 51st state

Postby Googly Smythe; Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:02 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Get a stonkingly powerful machine - you'll need it if you want to do this! :o There's a reason as to why it sounds amazing. :wink:
PS It's my fave echo and flanger plugin.
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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
 
1930 posts since 11 May, 2011, from The 51st state

Postby Googly Smythe; Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:07 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Also, I think it would be better to use Satin on your group/sub channels, but put a simple (ie very few controls) console/preamp sim on all your tracks. Sonimus Satson or Britson ($39 each), or, if you don't mind iLok, the Kush Omega series ($29 each). All very simple, and light on the cpu.
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ariston
KVRAF
 
3380 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat

Postby ariston; Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:20 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

It's on every channel in my Reaper default mixing template. I don't have a specific preset that I use, what I do is group all instances and experiment with various mastering presets, adjusting to taste, depending on the track. Sometimes you'll need pristine, barely noticeable, at other times, some obvious colouration will do the trick. Grouping everything lets you experiment with driving the plugin to find that ideal sweet spot. Don't forget to auto-mute the tape hiss!

Don't know about powerful machines... mine is an i5 4460. I use Sonimus Satson, Equality, Studio Devil VTP, MJUC and HG-2 on every channel as well, without a glitch or a hitch with even 20-30 tracks - we're talking (mostly) mono stems here, of course, not works-in-progress with 20 instances of Diva and 4 additional FX on every track. And I find Reaper to be very efficient, especially compared to Ableton.

My chain starts with the Satson console emu, Satin on the last slot, and everything else in between... in a real world setting, you'll obviously get all your mixing done before printing to tape. The master track naturally holds an instance of Satin as well.

To me, this is the only way I use Satin as a tape emulation. I rarely like what tape emus do on single tracks, but I love that overall cumulative "glueing" effect when used in this way.
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clangorous
KVRist
 
193 posts since 12 Nov, 2013, from Charlotte, North Carolina

Postby clangorous; Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:04 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

One slight difference for me is to start with a meter plugin, then the tape emulation.

Then set each track to -18 peak.

Once that's set then it's clip gain to level out each track.

Gain-staging in this way sets things up so the tape emulation sounds predictably awesome, I avoid clipping, and I need less compression since adjusting clip gain is basically transparent compression.
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#rob
KVRist
 
400 posts since 20 Aug, 2013

Postby #rob; Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:27 am Re: Using Satin on every channel

clangorous wrote:set each track to -18 peak.

Wow, that would give you VERY different perceived volume levels between tracks... I'd strongly recommend against that. :)

When levelling, rather go for a consistent RMS level. The odd peak breaking out here and there won't matter, as long as the overall perceived RMS stays fairly consistent.
Cheers,
Rob
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Andrew John
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:04 am Re: Using Satin on every channel

Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated!

I have the Slate digital bundle so i might try using the Virtual Console on the channels instead of the Sonimus suggestion, but thank you for that suggestion.

It leads me to a question about presets. When i load up the preset "Vintage Master -18db RMS" what does that mean? Do i have to ensure that the signal i feed into Satin has to be -18db RMS?

Thank you.
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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
 
1930 posts since 11 May, 2011, from The 51st state

Postby Googly Smythe; Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:43 am Re: Using Satin on every channel

Andrew John wrote:Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated!

I have the Slate digital bundle so i might try using the Virtual Console on the channels instead of the Sonimus suggestion, but thank you for that suggestion.

It leads me to a question about presets. When i load up the preset "Vintage Master -18db RMS" what does that mean? Do i have to ensure that the signal i feed into Satin has to be -18db RMS?

Thank you.

Just keep Satin's VU in/out meters around the 0db mark and you should be ok, whatever preset/settings you use.
Andrew John
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:24 am Re: Using Satin on every channel

Cool, thank you! But i am curious, these values aren't arbitrary.
sascha
KVRian
 
973 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from Berlin, Germany

Postby sascha; Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:58 am Re: Using Satin on every channel

Was me who created that preset. It's indeed made for -18dB RMS, thus aimed at pretty conservative-to moderate-level mixdowns. The parameters are set in a way that Satin adds a bit of character and rounding-off at this operation level. If you go higher, it'll surely work somewhat, but who knows...
As with effects plugins in general, I'd generally be cautious with presets and listen very closely, since no plugin can foresee what it gets fed with next.
Sascha Eversmeier
u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
Andrew John
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:15 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Cool, thank you Sasha, much appreciated. So just to double check, you're saying that the signal before it goes into Satin should be approx -18db for this preset?
sascha
KVRian
 
973 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from Berlin, Germany

Postby sascha; Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:27 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Yes. But RMS, not peak.
(Of course you can trim that with the input levels knob if needed)
The idea is, when mixing at relatively conservative levels, chances are the peak-to-RMS ratio (aka crest factor) is sufficiently high for a device like a tape machine to have full effect. If you already have a 'hot' mix, like say, -12 or -10dB RMS, you'll run the risk of not only slamming transients but also steady-state signals.
Sascha Eversmeier
u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
Andrew John
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:41 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Excellent explanation, thank you. So, generally speaking is it better to feed Satin a signal around -18 RMS?
sascha
KVRian
 
973 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from Berlin, Germany

Postby sascha; Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:41 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Not so easy. Depends...
Some sources might be more sensitive to distortion than others. The 'purer' the input (sparse harmonic series) the more you'll perceive added distortion.
Sascha Eversmeier
u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
Andrew John
KVRer
 
11 posts since 4 Oct, 2017

Postby Andrew John; Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:13 pm Re: Using Satin on every channel

Ok thanks. I'm generally not into distortion, I'm looking for warmth and glue. Could you elaborate on some recommendations of how to use it for that? Thank you for your help, much appreciated :)
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