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Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
6118 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 pm Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

tony10000 wrote:OK, then...if nobody wants less less expensive synths (so u-he can conceivably make some more bucks), then how about some more free synths like ZebraCM, BazilleCM and Zebralette?


So these three amazing synths, which could have been payware synths from any other developer, aren't enough for you? Tell me another developer that releases three amazing synths for free (not including NI Reaktor Player).
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.
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ariston
KVRAF
 
3384 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat

Postby ariston; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:09 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

U-He have carved out a pretty special niche in a competitive and in parts over-saturated market. They've done this by providing killer products, making sure there is little overlap between their products, treating customers like royalty (great support and awesome updates), not having sales, and by being very open and generous. They have a loyal and dedicated user base as a result of this. Every U-He synth is worth every damn cent, and, if you do decide to sell it, you'll still get an appreciable portion of your investment back.

Pandering to the "El Cheapo" market would cause them no small amount of headaches. It would devalue their product line and undermine their (obviously successful) strategy.
MikeCallon
KVRist
 
259 posts since 2 Jan, 2004

Postby MikeCallon; Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:22 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

ariston wrote:U-He have carved out a pretty special niche in a competitive and in parts over-saturated market. They've done this by providing killer products, making sure there is little overlap between their products, treating customers like royalty (great support and awesome updates), not having sales, and by being very open and generous. They have a loyal and dedicated user base as a result of this. Every U-He synth is worth every damn cent, and, if you do decide to sell it, you'll still get an appreciable portion of your investment back.

Pandering to the "El Cheapo" market would cause them no small amount of headaches. It would devalue their product line and undermine their (obviously successful) strategy.


+1 Couldn't agree more. Waves is a classic example of how a once 'high end' brand have effectively killed their reputation by having these ridiculously low priced sales continually. I doubt very much that anyone ever buys from Waves at full price any more. Who would ever pay $7,500 for Mercury now when it's been on sale for $2,000 (sometimes less) consistently for months?
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Urs
u-he
 
22368 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:57 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

MikeCallon wrote:+1 Couldn't agree more. Waves is a classic example of how a once 'high end' brand have effectively killed their reputation by having these ridiculously low priced sales continually. I doubt very much that anyone ever buys from Waves at full price any more. Who would ever pay $7,500 for Mercury now when it's been on sale for $2,000 (sometimes less) consistently for months?

This shows what I think this is usually about: People want expensive stuff cheap. Cheap stuff (as in: not marked down) is like, you know, not really interesting.

Also, we tried the 99$ sweet spot with Repro. It's only real limitation was being monophonic. We've all seen how that panned out. Instead of selling more due to its cheap price, people were happy to pay more if the "limitation" was removed.

We furthermore tried "great value" with ACE. It's obviously a top quality product, and, in my opinion, the best and most consistent design I did. While it is actually our 3rd best selling product so far in terms of overall licenses, it generated the least amount of revenue of all synths. That's also because we used ACE as "give away". Hadn't we done so e.g. in Bitwig promotions or magazine deals, ACE would have much lower number of licenses.

I actually did a census of all licenses recently. When taking price, units sold, and time on market into account, there's a clear tendency for pricier products to sell more often. It turns out that Zebra still has a lot more licenses out there than Diva, Diva has almost twice as many as ACE, followed by Hive and Repro, then Bazille. In terms of revenue, Zebra remains in the top spot by far, followed by Diva, Hive, Repro, Bazille and ACE. (Bazille might be behind ACE, can't really say atm)
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zvenx
KVRAF
 
6544 posts since 16 Feb, 2005, from Kingston, Jamaica

Postby zvenx; Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:06 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

Hopefully this quell this desire for less expensive u-he synths....I doubt it but I am hoping.
rsp

Urs wrote:
MikeCallon wrote:+1 Couldn't agree more. Waves is a classic example of how a once 'high end' brand have effectively killed their reputation by having these ridiculously low priced sales continually. I doubt very much that anyone ever buys from Waves at full price any more. Who would ever pay $7,500 for Mercury now when it's been on sale for $2,000 (sometimes less) consistently for months?

This shows what I think this is usually about: People want expensive stuff cheap. Cheap stuff (as in: not marked down) is like, you know, not really interesting.

Also, we tried the 99$ sweet spot with Repro. It's only real limitation was being monophonic. We've all seen how that panned out. Instead of selling more due to its cheap price, people were happy to pay more if the "limitation" was removed.

We furthermore tried "great value" with ACE. It's obviously a top quality product, and, in my opinion, the best and most consistent design I did. While it is actually our 3rd best selling product so far in terms of overall licenses, it generated the least amount of revenue of all synths. That's also because we used ACE as "give away". Hadn't we done so e.g. in Bitwig promotions or magazine deals, ACE would have much lower number of licenses.

I actually did a census of all licenses recently. When taking price, units sold, and time on market into account, there's a clear tendency for pricier products to sell more often. It turns out that Zebra still has a lot more licenses out there than Diva, Diva has almost twice as many as ACE, followed by Hive and Repro, then Bazille. In terms of revenue, Zebra remains in the top spot by far, followed by Diva, Hive, Repro, Bazille and ACE. (Bazille might be behind ACE, can't really say atm)
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U-o
KVRian
 
956 posts since 16 Nov, 2011

Postby U-o; Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:53 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

U-he plugins are great - payware, magware and freeware. For me are bit pricey and I would like to see them little bit cheaper, but these plugins are not "pay what you want", and if you don't have enough money, buy something else (cheaper alternative) or try to save money and buy it later or from second hand. There are always some posibilities.

You can buy a mansion, house with garden, flat, or tent according to your money. E. g. I like road cycling
and I had to look on cheaper alternatives even I like bicycles brands like Cannondale, BMC or Bianchi a lot. I bought nice roadbike for more than 1000€, because I did not want to risk to buy second hand Cann, BMC or others.

Back to the main topic: just imagine how much money you (and me too) spent last years for plugins that you used rarely or sold here later. And not only plugins, but absolutely stupid things you don't need... maybe than you realize, that these plugins are not expensive. U-he plugins could be cheaper, but final price of plugins is company decision and their policy and few people can not change it. We just can respect it.
FL Studio Producer Edition + Native Plugin Effects, Sanford Reverb, Tritik Krush, Ursa Lagrange, Valhalla Vintage Verb + Harmless, Harmor
tony10000
KVRist
 
51 posts since 3 Aug, 2017

Postby tony10000; Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:56 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

"This shows what I think this is usually about: People want expensive stuff cheap. Cheap stuff (as in: not marked down) is like, you know, not really interesting."

Urs,

As I have bought all of your synths (save Filterscape), that isn't me.

However, I do admit that I became hooked on u-he at first due to your free synths. They are true "loss leaders" and a prime gateway into the world of u-he.

The first u-he synth I purchased was Ace. It allowed me to see the quality, design detail and overall value of u-he as a brand and made me want to buy more. And more. And even more. So, I ended up buying Hive, Repro, Zebra, Bazille and Diva. Am I cheap? Add up the prices of all of those synths and do the math.

Although your free synths add nothing to your bottom line and your value-priced synths aren't the biggest sellers, they do bring customers in the door and increase sales of other synths.

Thus, I am not asking you to devalue your brand. I am not asking you to run sales on your other synths or lower their prices as I believe in their value.

What I was saying is that a "Hive Lite" or "Diva Lite" might strengthen the u-he brand image even more, provide a lot of visibility and entice even more customers to buy u-he. Brand visibility is vital as there are a lot of players vying for the same market.
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
4251 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:12 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

Riddle me this: why would cut-down synth with an arbitrary price tag be more famous or have a better brand image than Diva, Repro or Zebra? All of which have reputations (just looking at places like music forums) that have very little to do with the price tag.
tony10000
KVRist
 
51 posts since 3 Aug, 2017

Postby tony10000; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:16 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

"Riddle me this: why would cut-down synth with an arbitrary price tag be more famous or have a better brand image than Diva, Repro or Zebra? All of which have reputations (just looking at places like music forums) that have very little to do with the price tag."

That is not the point I am making. Read my post carefully.

Riddle me this: Did ZebraCM, BazilleCM, et entice users like me to buy the full versions? In my case, they did!
Last edited by tony10000 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
4251 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:18 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

OTOH, try rereading your own post. Emphasis added:

tony10000 wrote:What I was saying is that a "Hive Lite" or "Diva Lite" might strengthen the u-he brand image even more, provide a lot of visibility and entice even more customers to buy u-he. Brand visibility is vital as there are a lot of players vying for the same market.
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
4251 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:21 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

In answer to your edit, the free versions can and do act as extended demos - get people used to the sound without the pressure of things timing out. They can also be more easily promoted by mags as part of their free download offerings.

You can't do those things with stripped-down synths that cost real money - unless the vendor wants to do time-limited free offerings. And then you're back in the land of free anyway, not cheaper stuff.
tony10000
KVRist
 
51 posts since 3 Aug, 2017

Postby tony10000; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:25 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

"OTOH, try rereading your own post. Emphasis added..."

And your point is?

Are you saying that a brand like u-he could not benefit from more exposure? Given the sales numbers Urs has posted previously compared to the total size of the market, I would say that u-he has a lot of room for growth.
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Guenon
KVRian
 
1485 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Postby Guenon; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:33 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

tony10000 wrote:I would say that u-he has a lot of room for growth.


Even if it was the case that the strategy you are suggesting was successful in yielding growth to u-he, it would be entirely up to them to decide whether they actually want that growth by doing something that doesn't inspire them, or pursue something that is genuinely inspiring and satisfying to them instead, while still being sustainable.
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
4251 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:34 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

tony10000 wrote:"OTOH, try rereading your own post. Emphasis added..."

And your point is?


I asked you how a stripped-down version (eg Hive Lite) would increase brand visibility - which was the claim you yourself made. You then said you hadn't made any such point and I should reread your post. I did, and highlighted the bit that made me type the original response.

I don't think this is rocket science but maybe I'm expecting too much.
tony10000
KVRist
 
51 posts since 3 Aug, 2017

Postby tony10000; Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:34 am Re: How About Some Less Expensive Synths?

Gamma-UT wrote:In answer to your edit, the free versions can and do act as extended demos - get people used to the sound without the pressure of things timing out. They can also be more easily promoted by mags as part of their free download offerings.

You can't do those things with stripped-down synths that cost real money - unless the vendor wants to do time-limited free offerings. And then you're back in the land of free anyway, not cheaper stuff.


However, more people would be willing to lay out some cash for a lower-priced synth ($50-100) than one costing much more, especially if they are new to the brand. That was certainly my case with Ace.

u-he's brand strength has a lot to do with the quality of the synths, lack of copy protection, lack of time-limited demo versions and freeware. I thought one or more value synths may be another pillar in the strategy. Freeware versions of Hive and Diva (a la Zebra and Bazille) would be another possibility and could even be more successful!

I think Hive would benefit much more than Diva since it doesn't seem to have really caught on with the EDM market to which it was targeted. Sylenth1 still seems to be the king of that market. And there is strong competition with Serum, Spire, Ana2, etc.

Just my .02
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