README - For non-programmers with great ideas

[deraudrl]

Also computers and VSTs haven't been around all that long. A lot of the programming going on here is either cutting edge, or something fairly close to it.

<grumpy-old-man-level=11>
The only thing that makes it "cutting edge" is being able to do it in real time on a $750 computer you bought at WalMart.
<grumpy-old-man-level=0>

Sorry. I keep having flashbacks about programming DSP algorithms on megabuck mil-spec array processors back when I was young, had hair, and 10MHz was considered "fast".

A studio full of synthesizers on your desktop may be a relatively new thing, but computers and the DSP algorithms that make up VSTs have been around for decades...that's centuries in "programmer years".

[seagerash7]

Completely understandable that entrepreneurs and people with ideas spamming recklessly on forums is a nuisance to those not looking for projects - don't you think its time KVR had a forum connecting non- developers with ideas WITH developers? As I'm sure not all developers are as narrow minded and averse to new ideas as this thread makes out! Would network developers looking for plug-in projects and ideas-people looking for developers - and would solve the problem of spam on unrelated threads for those who don't care for innovation :)

[xaqmusic]

Completely understandable that entrepreneurs and people with ideas spamming recklessly on forums is a nuisance to those not looking for projects - don't you think its time KVR had a forum connecting non- developers with ideas WITH developers? As I'm sure not all developers are as narrow minded and averse to new ideas as this thread makes out! Would network developers looking for plug-in projects and ideas-people looking for developers - and would solve the problem of spam on unrelated threads for those who don't care for innovation

I do agree with this. How about those of us who have created something worthwhile in Synthedit or some other GUI development platform who would like to take it to the next level? Maybe some guidelines from you real programmers out there to help those who are serious get their prototypes in gear would be helpful. Thanks!

[thankyou]

Great, you've convinced yourself. It'll take a while so you'd better start now writing this software. Keep us updated on how you're coming along.

I am not a software engineer, but maybe there are some who come to KVR. My idea is to translate vsti's into hardware circuits, and move the music industry back to vinyl again... in the name of saving the music industry. Software engineers are vital "imagineers" (to borrow from Disney) and they deserve real jobs with real money. Hardware doesn't get pirated as easy as a pile of numbers. This is where the love is about my intentions.

I definitely think vinyl was "made for" the human ear and I hope that such a movement would begin and do away with digital audio as an 'end' in itself. vinyl is proven so far to last longer than any hard drive or cd. they take up more space, but nobody i know has paid for every last terabyte of audio they 'own'.

I do think that even turntables can benefit from the way software and developers have evolved together. i do think that software is a great thing, but not as a 'destination' since it does not exist in the same dimension that people and earth do. I know some of this sounds like metaphysical reasons for the drive back to hardware, but I hope there are others who can see that what is currently happening is a kind of redundant virtualization of life into cyberspace.

"where we're going we dont need... roads"

I have explored cyberspace and it is awesome. I have also explored hyperspace and I have decided that earth is a worthwhile place to work on, and we need to give it and each other some IRL TLC.

So by trying to initiate the move from software to hardware, I am not in this for the hope of monetary gain, I am instead putting energy into saving the music industry and giving software engineers a fighting chance in the battle against piracy.

I was directed to this thread by the mods due to the relevancy of my having an unpopular idea.

[Meffy]

No, you were directed to this thread as a hint that you should stop speculating and/or trolling and get to work on your own idea (if you're sincere and not just trying to yank people's chains; whether you follow up on your ideas will serve as evidence of which). Not so you could continue the argument here. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume a third hint won't be necessary.

[trimph1]

Completely understandable that entrepreneurs and people with ideas spamming recklessly on forums is a nuisance to those not looking for projects - don't you think its time KVR had a forum connecting non- developers with ideas WITH developers? As I'm sure not all developers are as narrow minded and averse to new ideas as this thread makes out! Would network developers looking for plug-in projects and ideas-people looking for developers - and would solve the problem of spam on unrelated threads for those who don't care for innovation

I do agree with this. How about those of us who have created something worthwhile in Synthedit or some other GUI development platform who would like to take it to the next level? Maybe some guidelines from you real programmers out there to help those who are serious get their prototypes in gear would be helpful. Thanks!

I'd be tempted to even get involved if this was the case as well---a kind of mentoring as it were would be the ideal case

[dodothedreamer]

Completely understandable that entrepreneurs and people with ideas spamming recklessly on forums is a nuisance to those not looking for projects - don't you think its time KVR had a forum connecting non- developers with ideas WITH developers? As I'm sure not all developers are as narrow minded and averse to new ideas as this thread makes out! Would network developers looking for plug-in projects and ideas-people looking for developers - and would solve the problem of spam on unrelated threads for those who don't care for innovation

I do agree with this. How about those of us who have created something worthwhile in Synthedit or some other GUI development platform who would like to take it to the next level? Maybe some guidelines from you real programmers out there to help those who are serious get their prototypes in gear would be helpful. Thanks!

Hello,
I am new to this forum, and I was about to suggest something similar when I saw this thread.
I am a programmer, wrote a few VST plugins, and sometimes I have good ideas but I don't have the time to work on them. I was thinking that instead of just saving the ideas, sometimes for years, until I will have the time, I would instead tell the community about them, and developers can use the ideas for free or commercial products.

My suggestion is a sub forum for public domain ideas.
Each idea can be in a thread, and developers can check them out. If they decide to implement an idea, they would be encouraged, though not obliged, to post updates in the thread about the plugin they are making, and to credit the original poster, and any other members that contributed useful suggestions in the thread.

What do you think?

Oded.

[antto]

sounds like a WikIdea ;P~

[doctornash]

In audio DSP, I haven't often come across the media stereotype of one fellow being the one with the great ideas and business nous and the other the number cruncher and techie who does his bidding and makes those great ideas blossom into wondrous reality. I rarely witness someone fronting up with a 'light-bulb moment' of revolutionary significance; or an idea that results in a jaw-dropping step-change. What I do see though, is the journey I've been on myself: pick something, try it, analyze it, emulate it, learn some theory, make changes based on the theory and see what happens, make some semi-random or trial-and-error changes and see what happens, rinse, lather and repeat. As you iterate through, you progressively get a feel for what works and what doesn't, and you may well end up going in a different direction than you anticipated. The outcome of all this could be a worthwhile result that's somehow useable...

[mztk]

which is something you do very much more quickly in synthedit than
when obeying syntax rules and trying not to f*** up something that
is not very intuitive (unless your brain is trained in that strange way).

synthedit, which appears to get dissed a bit by some coders, is such an
elegant creative environment that you wonder why all software programming
has not evolved in this way.

[elijahlucian]

maybe this thread could be used for developers that are open to being approached by "ideas-men"

or have a sticky thread where devs can post that they are up for it.

seems like developers are more interested in posting their own projects (which is cool) and get "artist syndrome" when they hear of somebody else that might have a good idea. ("your idea can't possibly be more groundbreaking than mine! I am GOD!!!!" etc etc)

[antto]

i'd say..
pondering about ideas happens in no time..
bringing an idea to real life can take years..

[aciddose]

the reason synth-edit is shunned by coders is because the "glue code" and things like user interface and so on make up a huge percentage of the effort. maybe something like 90% or more.

the "idea" part of the code is usually extremely minor.

that's assuming your "idea" is already tested and works perfectly in synth-edit.

now the problems really start - when your idea breaks down in certain corner cases or isn't up to par with expectations for quality. when it works but is extremely inefficient in terms of processing. when it's possible to approximate the idea in synth-edit, but you haven't actually built something that works. (for example, you have a guitar sound, but it isn't in tune.)

working through these sorts of problems makes up 90% of the implementation of the "idea" when they occur. there is a saying in programming, "after the first 90% comes the second". also the idea of "bug-free software" is laughed at hysterically.

if synth-edit were capable of producing the product, you would have already produced it.

here is a very important tip:

if you have an idea, you need a prototype before you approach a programmer. it should include a working plugin with all the features you want, a gui layout even if rough, and practical expectations for getting exactly what your prototype contains. (not i want "this", except with ++ and these other features.)

you don't absolutely have to build a functional prototype if your idea includes a unique combination of existing elements. for example a synthesizer where waveforms, envelopes, lfos are all drawable.

if you don't have a prototype you are far more likely to be laughed at when the coder knows about a flaw in your design that you haven't tested yet because you didn't bother to prototype it.

it may seem pessimistic but when you think in terms of "this idea is better than anything else" you're assuming you're smarter and better at this than everyone else. why hasn't anyone else thought of this? are you a special sort of genius with ten times the brain power? are you extremely lucky? what are the odds of this being true?

let me tell you: generally not too good.

another thing that pisses coders off: this line of thinking usually leads "idea people" to keep their ideas secret and only expose the fact they have an idea and how great it is, but none of the details.

here is a quote that applies perfectly:

"you need not keep your ideas secret. if you have a really good idea you'll find that you have to shove it down people's throats."

so if you really believe it is good, prototype it, work on it, develop it and make it evolve and keep shoving it down people's throats. they'll either gag, or perhaps somebody will finally listen to it. that is up to you. don't be upset at people when they reject you at first. there is effort involved and you can't expect not to have to put any in.

if you've read my entire post you qualify. send me a message or email and we can discuss your idea.

[elijahlucian]

one question. how exactly am i supposed to make a working version of the plugin if I have no idea how to code?

I am all about making a working prototype. but how do i go about that exactly?

[aciddose]

you should download something like synth-edit, or sync-modular.

these are both free (synth-edit only a demo). i would recommend sync-modular but synth-edit is praised often around here.

learn how to assemble modules and put your idea together, assuming it's related to audio or event processing in some way.

if your idea is more like a gui feature, get a tool for drawing and create an example of how you want the gui element to work.

arts-acoustic reverb was produced first in synth-edit by what i've heard. i've seen the source code for it and i assure you, even with a prototype that would take quite some time to implement just the audio parts. the gui and presets and so on would take even longer.