2015 EU VAT rules ("MOSS")

[audiothing]

Follow up on Bandcamp nonsense. Today I received this reply:

In the case of a platform such as Bandcamp, the new EU VAT regulations are complex and can be interpreted in different ways. In our best reading of the regulations, we are responsible for collecting and reporting VAT, which means you, as a seller, are not.

That would be true if they act as reseller. But I'm still the one receiving money directly from the customer.
Am I wrong?

[daz.diamond]

Am I wrong?

that will probably depend on the opinion of the powers-that-be in the country you sell into ... and these multiple opinions may differ ... so you may well be both right and wrong at the same time ...

[MeldaProduction]

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned here:

In Czech republic we have a so-called "Mini One Stop Shop" - it basically acts like a interface between us and the VAT office of each EU country. Seems that most people don't know about it though and many companies actually already quit! I know about it just because of my accounting service. Anyway I'm still thinking about starting a company outside of EU, simply for sake to make a statement - if EU doesn't want our taxes making our lives a tax misery, maybe we should pay taxes to someone else...

[Audiority]

Hi Melda,

the MOSS is already available for each country in EU. The problem is all the management of this mess, rather than the VAT itself. Here in Italy you have to apply for VAT even if you sell a single banana, so we're used to already deal with VAT... but since this new regulation requires you to, basically, have a different accounting for each EU country... well, having a middle-man dealing with it instead of you is the only logic solution for sole traders and very small businesses.

Cheers,
Luca

[Angus_FX]

Luca, what do people do in practice in Italy? Are hobby businesses registered for tax (as most actually are in the UK) or does the government turn a blind eye?

[Audiority]

as fas as I know, you have to registered for both VAT and pay taxes... but I guess hobbists are used to sell through eBay/etsy et simila just to try it out. People here have to think twice before starting a business.. taxation here is crazy (over 60% of total pressure).

[EcHo2K]

do you know this website?

http://www.taxamo.com/

for a fixed 0.20€ each transaction they say that will handle the moss stuff for you, and the i have a plugin for many ecommerce platform...

Saverio
hornetplugins.com

[coincidental]

Yes, there's an increasing number of commercial options available. NB, though, that I believe Taxamo only deal with collecting compliance information and charging and invoicing the correct amount of VAT. They don't act as a full intermediary, so you still have to register for VAT and MOSS (or equivalent) if you haven't already. They'll make it easy to fill in the form though, so it just depends on what service you're after. Also, they only deal with the payment side, too, not fulfilling the order.

For a full intermediary that deals with all the VAT, including collecting and returning it, and fulfils the order too, you'll need something like Fastspring, Digital Goods Store, SendOwl or ... lots more.

[EvilDragon]

Hollow Sun has survived - we have moved from Payloadz to FastSpring!

[do_androids_dream]

do you know this website?

http://www.taxamo.com/

for a fixed 0.20€ each transaction they say that will handle the moss stuff for you, and the i have a plugin for many ecommerce platform...

Saverio
hornetplugins.com

Thanks for the heads up on this - looks promising.

[hibrasil]

does anyone have an opinion on the relative merits of fastspring or share-it? thanks

oli

[MeldaProduction]

Hi Melda,

the MOSS is already available for each country in EU. The problem is all the management of this mess, rather than the VAT itself. Here in Italy you have to apply for VAT even if you sell a single banana, so we're used to already deal with VAT... but since this new regulation requires you to, basically, have a different accounting for each EU country... well, having a middle-man dealing with it instead of you is the only logic solution for sole traders and very small businesses.

Cheers,
Luca

Hi Luca, got it! I think it's probably the most idiotic law ever created... And that's the reason, I'm going to actively search for opportunity to start a company offshore. It's wrong in a way, and impossible for the smallest companies, but probably the only way to express that these idiots in god damn EU government should start thinking twice before making another idiotic rule.

I heard many small companies already quit because of this crap. In a way I think there should be a possibility for suing EU for monopolistic behaviour (since they are obviously prioritizing big companies), but nobody will do that probably, we are too small for that and they know it...

[mkdr]

One interesting thing I stumbled on: Crowd funding becomes cumbersome as it is under VAT regulation too. It's been very complicated even before this here in Finland so not sure if this applies to other EU countries. Maybe someone else knows more?


Such a trainwreck this whole 2015 VAT mess..

[Richard_Synapse]

does anyone have an opinion on the relative merits of fastspring or share-it? thanks

oli

ShareIt sure saves you a lot of hassle, and many plugin devs use it. Can't comment on fastspring, no experience with it - but as long as they do the tax thing for you and the commission is similar, should be fine as well.

Richard

[do_androids_dream]

does anyone have an opinion on the relative merits of fastspring or share-it? thanks

oli

ShareIt sure saves you a lot of hassle, and many plugin devs use it. Can't comment on fastspring, no experience with it - but as long as they do the tax thing for you and the commission is similar, should be fine as well.

Richard

This is confusing me - the flowchart at the HMRC website basically says that if you go through a 3rd party then you don't need to worry. But, according to various posts around here this still isn't a guarantee as some 3rd parties are not charging VAT - is that correct? VAT is such a confusing matter isn't it?

Edit - the reason for the confusion here is that I thought that using ANY 3rd party counts as Business 2 Business. We know that these rules only apply to Business 2 Consumer transactions.