KVR Audio

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:01 pm

Hi

Following on from a thread I recently read concerning SX2 and Sonar the following thoughts came to mind, after several posting suggested possible 'Sonic' differences between the two sequencer packages.

Perhaps it is not so outrageous to assume a sequencer might impart 'something' to some, part or indeed all the sound that it is host to; and which (in some way) pass 'through' it.

I have been told that one 'popular' sequencer has the equivalent of a limiter across its 'virtual' outputs - in other words it has code that modifies the sound (that is traveling to the sound card) in order to control inherent digital debris and artifacts at source - and indeed help prevent clipping.

Now this is not something that you might expect to be written on the box for obvious reasons - that an uncontrollable (to the user) process is imparted on the sound.

So perhaps there is validity to the idea that one, some or all host's are likely to have an individual or characteristic sound.

Even if we put aside what I have already stated, it occurs to me that in the virtual world of the host /sequencer engine (which I imagine ALL sound must pass through or be manipulated in some way by) surely some (however minor) alteration (I am lost for descriptive words here!) or sonic manipulation must/could take place.

We all accept (don't we) that the 32 bit processing power (and faster CPU speeds) we enjoy today gives an inherently 'improved' quality to the delivery of lets say hard-drive streamed audio - as opposed to 8 or 16 bit streamed audio?

Well if the above is true - why?

Well that is probably a starting point for suggesting that anything that goes into or through a computer has to in some way be effected by its makeup.

I think it is too easy to think in terms of the final link in the chain (the sound card) as being the only real piece of the jigsaw that impacts on the 'sonic' delivery that we hear.

I remember reading an article on a product that 'conditions' the mains electric supply - the result being a (subjectively) 'improved' clarity to the audio of products that utilized the said gadget - my point being to site an example of how 'obscure' it can be to imagine how subtle (or not so obvious) causes may impact on the perceived 'quality' of what we hear.

And that again raises the issue of 'subjectivity' - I believe that the current 'crop' of host's probably DO have characteristic differences reflected in how (or how much) they impart 'their' own 'sonic' statement on what turns up at the PCI slot to be processed by the sound card - but, and it's a big but - I also think that the differences are very subtle, but nevertheless exist.

This is ultimately not a life and death situation (assuming I have described worst case scenarios!) but it would be interesting to hear the major players (hosts) in a controlled setting on identical systems to hear just how much or little the differences (if any - you skeptic!) are.

By the time I switch from Logic PC to my next platform I wonder if I will notice any difference - perhaps in view of some of the comments I have heard on the SX2/Sonar thread this post might just sway my leaning towards SX2; because presently I like what I hear about Sonar but certainly there have been post's that suggest improved 'sonic' delivery via SX2.

The aim of my observations is not to turn THIS into a battle royale (stick to the other thread please!) but to get some 'USEFUL' dialogue going about what I have put forward - and I make no bones (I wonder if he will comment!) about the validity of the content; it is mainly personal unsubstantiated non-technical bits I have picked up over the years!

Flipper.

snooky · Post by **snooky** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:51 pm

Cubase sounds grainy and mushy, Logic sounds crisp and clean...Sonar should sound phat because Pro Audio did.

Mirabebe · Post by **Mirabebe** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:55 pm

Logic sounds weak and smudged. Cubase sounds wet and foggy. Sonar sounds fuzzy and jellyish. Tracktion sounds damp and leaky.

maxxxter · Post by **maxxxter** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:58 pm

DELETED

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:14 pm

I have a suspicion it has a lot to do with the summing at the master buss. Dont quote me on that one, but it would seem the logical place where a sequencer might have some sonic characteristics.

007 · Post by **007** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:17 pm

Indeed Nuendo and certainly Logic sounds very good.
For me the best is Pro-tools. Logic comes close to it.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:28 pm

has anyone read Flipper's entire post this time?

Muff Wiggler · Post by **Muff Wiggler** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:28 pm

Logic sounds weak and smudged. Cubase sounds wet and foggy. Sonar sounds fuzzy and jellyish. Tracktion sounds damp and leaky.

that's total mis-information you are spreading

cubase sounds brown, while nuendo sounds beige

tracktion definately has a leaky blue suede thing happening, while logic has a very specific chartruse character to its mixes

Muff Wiggler · Post by **Muff Wiggler** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:01 pm

almost forgot

flstudio adds a lot of mustard to the mix

and not dijon either. the yellow stuff, you know you love it

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:05 pm

Hi

I 'do' paragraphs now!

I wrote this not knowing there was another thread on the same!

Why do people prefer - Sx2 sounds better than tracktion - now f... off?

I do try to please ....so hard.

Flipper.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:07 pm

Is the midi also affected?

Just kidding

A year a go i used logic (pc) for a couple of weeks, and i must say i did like the result better. If it had to do with the buildin effects or not, i dont know.

Interesting topic!

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:08 pm

Hi

Oh yes, thanks for a sensible dialogue 'Maxxxter'!

Flipper.

PS - my next thread will be War and Peace 2.

Marc JX8P · Post by **Marc JX8P** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:16 pm

Recently I switched from Logic to Cubase SL and my music has changed with it. Although this is largely the result of host-effects in my view, I've found that my music sounds more 'direct' and 'gritty' than it did before (mind you, I did use to use barge loads of that lovely platinum reverb and now I love Cubase distortion effects).

All in all though - I bet that even the user interface would influence the end result, unless you're one of those amazing people who hear in their heads exactly what they want to achieve and just use the sequencer as a means of getting there.

warbug · Post by **warbug** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:20 pm

this is a good topic i went from cubase 5.1 to tracktion. my stuff sounded better in tracktion only because i was maturing in my mixing/master abilities. i would love to see some hard facts on this subject.

BTW. fl 2.5 sounds way better than FL studio.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:29 pm

jens wrote:has anyone read Flipper's entire post this time?

Oh god no. People are getting a bit of diahrea of the keyboard these days.

Devon

Do hosts have a unique sound?