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JCJR
KVRAF
 
2246 posts since 17 Apr, 2005, from S.E. TN

Postby JCJR; Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:21 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Thanks, I did not know ReaVerb is a convolution plugin either. Great!
camsr
KVRAF
 
6805 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:03 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Leslie Sanford wrote:
camsr wrote:What's going on with these convolutions? I just got lost there!


You know how you can use an impulse response of a concert hall with a convolution reverb to make it sound as though you're in that same concert hall? It's the same principle. You can use an impulse response of an instrument with a convolution reverb to make it sound as though your synth is being played through the same space. It's a way of giving body to a sound.


But what about the mixing of the frequency response after convolution? Are the instrument IRs flattened first? Or is EQ required?
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Chris-S
KVRAF
 
2543 posts since 10 Nov, 2013, from Germany

Postby Chris-S; Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:52 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Depends. Convolution already contains a filter curve. EQ is only needed for adjusting.

Basically convolution is a combination of filter and delay (so called linear operations).
What it not can do are non-linear operations (e.g. distortion, compression, pitch shifting).
Elhardt
KVRist
 
43 posts since 11 Oct, 2006

Postby Elhardt; Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:26 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Just came across this 2 year old thread. I should point out that 15 years and more ago, I've done lots of experiments in "string filtering", using everything from 4 short delay lines, to 42 band filter banks. I still have a few audio examples online (though some are gone), and I can tell you what works best or the problems with different methods, but I'd have to hear from people here, otherwise I'm wasting my time commenting on a death thread. It's too bad all that I've done is being forgotten and people are reinventing the wheel. Even on KVR somebody started an entire thread about my Nord Modular violin patch (and I've also emulated an entire symphony orchestra and tons of other stuff too) see link below. If you want more info on the subject just post that you're still hear and interested.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=149524
Leslie Sanford
KVRAF
 
1595 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Postby Leslie Sanford; Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:15 am Re: Moog String Filter

Elhardt wrote:Just came across this 2 year old thread. I should point out that 15 years and more ago, I've done lots of experiments in "string filtering", using everything from 4 short delay lines, to 42 band filter banks. I still have a few audio examples online (though some are gone), and I can tell you what works best or the problems with different methods, but I'd have to hear from people here, otherwise I'm wasting my time commenting on a death thread. It's too bad all that I've done is being forgotten and people are reinventing the wheel. Even on KVR somebody started an entire thread about my Nord Modular violin patch (and I've also emulated an entire symphony orchestra and tons of other stuff too) see link below. If you want more info on the subject just post that you're still hear and interested.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=149524


Thank you for your reply. I remember hearing the Nord Modular violin patch demo. I was very impressed not only by how realistic the patch sounded but also by the idiomatic performance. I reviewed the above thread and found your comment in which you go into some detail describing how the patch was created:

viewtopic.php?p=2159418#p2159418

The description of using oscillator sync modulated by S/H noise and shaped by an envelope for the attack is very interesting. Would you recommend a speed at which the S/H is modulating the pitch of the slaved oscillator?

I find imitating the attack transient of bowed string instruments to be particularly challenging, so that bit of information is very valuable.

Any additional information you would like to share would be greatly appreciated.
JCJR
KVRAF
 
2246 posts since 17 Apr, 2005, from S.E. TN

Postby JCJR; Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:30 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Maybe someday will find the beta pcm freeman string symphonizer samples that I think I recall making after the freeman had the 24 bandpass moog resonator and chaotic analog chorus installed. Didn't yet run across the right tape.

A few months ago dubbed off a low budget vinyl 45 we recorded sometime around 1978 - 1980 in a pretty nice studio before I modified the freeman. Submitted just as a reference in case anyone interested. There are not many good "sweetened" freeman examples online that I've heard. It is just the three-oscillator freeman string sound sweetened with an old-fashioned acoustic reverb chamber and the multiband channel strip EQ on an old Sphere console. Other keyboards I played were steinway grand, hammond c3 and whiteface arp odyssey.

http://errnum.com/MP3Files/01_SkyHighChatt_IfEverComesTheDay.mp3
Leslie Sanford
KVRAF
 
1595 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Postby Leslie Sanford; Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:51 am Re: Moog String Filter

JCJR wrote:A few months ago dubbed off a low budget vinyl 45 we recorded sometime around 1978 - 1980 in a pretty nice studio before I modified the freeman. Submitted just as a reference in case anyone interested.


Very cool, JCJR! I enjoyed listening to that. Thanks for sharing.
Leslie Sanford
KVRAF
 
1595 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Postby Leslie Sanford; Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:13 pm Re: Moog String Filter

An attempt at synthesizing a solo violin sound using V-Station:

https://soundcloud.com/leslie-sanford/v ... v-station/
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Smashed Transistors
KVRist
 
126 posts since 10 Oct, 2014

Postby Smashed Transistors; Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:01 am Re: Moog String Filter

The Moog String filters was designed based on Max Mathews experiments and findings (see page 129 for some info http://cachescan.bcub.ro/e-book/Adriana ... 13-169.pdf). The filter should have a high density of notches and peaks and they must not emphasize a particular note (so, the notches and peaks should not coincide too much on harmonics).

Synthesis of complex formant filtered sounds, with a high density of spectral static peaks and notches can be obtained with granular synthesis, or synched phase modulation as here :

https://soundcloud.com/thierry-rocheboi ... patch-test

If you add to that some tuned comb filter, you have something that Julius O. Smith calls "commuted waveguide synthesis".

These methods are quite computationally efficient.


Another efficient method is to use "sparse filters" i.e. multitap filters (a short multitap delay). I've just started to experiment with these. I think those filters have a great potential but i have to work on a "design" algorithm (genetic or so) to find the correct taps based on a set of constraints.
See you here and there... Youtube, Google Play, SoundCloud...
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Smashed Transistors
KVRist
 
126 posts since 10 Oct, 2014

Postby Smashed Transistors; Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:50 am Re: Moog String Filter

See you here and there... Youtube, Google Play, SoundCloud...
mystran
KVRAF
 
4888 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby mystran; Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:42 pm Re: Moog String Filter

Smashed Transistors wrote:Synthesis of complex formant filtered sounds, with a high density of spectral static peaks and notches can be obtained with granular synthesis, or synched phase modulation as here :

https://soundcloud.com/thierry-rocheboi ... patch-test


The spectrum of this sounds at least approximately plausible, but the texture leaves much to be desired. The short version of it is that it's way to clean.

The physics of bowing a string are approximately such that the bow hairs will slip slightly in a more or less random fashion as the tension from the string exceeds the static friction. One hair slipping might or might not cause other hairs to slip, but the point is that there are constant "micro-slips" (as I've seen in described in the literature) as you drag the bow. This is what puts the string into vibration, but because it is quite a chaotic process, the sound is necessarily somewhat noisy, with a tell-tale granular texture as long as the bow is applied (and then clears up if you lift the bow while the string is still vibrating, at which point the remaining decay sounds more like a plucked string).

ps. I actually used to play violin for years. :)
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