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aciddose
KVRAF
 
11810 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:40 am Re: Sympathetic resonance

For the "non-linear" / "gated" apparent response of toms, this is actually just an extension of the same effect you get with the top+bottom skin being tuned or not.

The frequency of the stand the tom is mounted on as well as the wobbling of the tom relative to the stand, relative to the floor are all components that are either tuned or not and in-phase or out-of-phase with the skins themselves.

So it's a question of which frequencies happen to create a situation where all these resonances "line up" together both in-tune and in-phase. What you're really dealing with is a sort of comb-filter feeding into comb-filters feeding into comb-filters effect due to all these elements plus the room interacting together.

In other words the solution is a room reverb combined with the "pure" tuned filters to emulate the skins of the tom. It's also essential to keep in mind any non-linear effect of the skins themselves and the harmonic spectra produced: the skin will have a much more complex response than a simple single band-pass filter.

... and now you know why this isn't commonplace: it's extremely expensive to emulate in any reasonably realistic way simply due to the number of elements involved as well as the complexity of each individual element. Yes, 90% of the way there would be "it works, roughly", but 10%, 50%, 75% and 89% would be "doesn't work".

90% of the way there is already so expensive you might as well just take it all the way ... and build a studio, hire musicians and record your live takes, since all that stuff is probably significantly less expensive than years of R&D trying to implement software that may never pay off.
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Aloysius
KVRAF
 
21464 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from a computer

Postby Aloysius; Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:57 am Re: Sympathetic resonance

pathetic resonance
Impeach 64. Keep 32-bit Plug-ins alive.
JCJR
KVRAF
 
2238 posts since 17 Apr, 2005, from S.E. TN

Postby JCJR; Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:17 pm Re: Sympathetic resonance

Thanks aciddose. Excellent points so far as I know which isn't much. My thoughts on a "Bass De-Clarifier" plugin were in the devil's advocate vein, such as "Blowing up the moon is probably a very bad idea but if we did want to blow up the moon then maybe this would work..." :)
kamalmanzukie
KVRist
 
104 posts since 12 May, 2012

Postby kamalmanzukie; Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:17 pm Re: Sympathetic resonance

solomute wrote:
i had it probably one of the best synthesized sitar sounds id ever heard until it crashed, and i never was able to get it quite the same. sad days

Sad to hear. Perhaps you should continue your experiments. Using IRs is a nice idea. Nebula has dynamic or call it multiple-in-one IRs which could be somehow used for implementation of SR between tracks. Currently they have issued harrison mixbuss emulating entire console, ie there are no obstacles for them to make SR between tracks. But I suspect they keep that niche for the future. For some years they will play with pianoteq project totally ignoring the thing in question and may be if our civilization is still alive they will take the burden. Once there was a project where one guy created SR scripts for kontakt piano libs. Then mysteriously the project was shut down. You can find his script in piano old lady kontakt which has no gui. The same thing can be implemented as intertracktial thing between different instruments but I bet there is taboo on that. They make only allowed things like pianoteq and I don't believe they are so silly that they have not thought about the possibility to make SR between tracks. There are hw SR modules and hw are not so powerful as pcs.


Using IRs is exactly what i did the first time. it took the place of actual drone strings but everything else was the same. but yeah, i dug the old thing up and with in an hour or so we have this:

(mp3 demo)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jTnJC ... IdvCmIUf6m

not too shabby if i do say so myself
kamalmanzukie
KVRist
 
104 posts since 12 May, 2012

Postby kamalmanzukie; Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:42 pm Re: Sympathetic resonance

this ones a bit closer. all the things people say are hard to do are easy if you always fake it the entire way

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CyZPO ... scqL3bLpQD
solomute
Banned

Postby solomute; Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:54 am Re: Sympathetic resonance

Here's an example which crossfades across 10 IRs. The 10s IRs are all different plucked guitar harmonics, and the sound they're applied to is a scrambled, ring modulated guitar. The ring modulated guitar is completely inharmonic, so all the consonant resonances you hear are coming from the IRs.
https://soundcloud.com/chqtestsubjects/ ... on-example

Interesing though the guitar itself is hard to recognize within those sounds. But it shows that it's possible.
In other words the solution is a room reverb combined with the "pure" tuned filters

I also thought that SR should be part of reverb vst because room's air is the medium of interaction between instruments.

This intertracktial vst should be not as hard to make as spaceships and airplance. One guru in physics and a programer are enough to calcuate that... All properties of materials are documented as well as resonators... It's a bulky work of course and should be well sponsored and the vst itself will cost a lot
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