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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
1026 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:23 am Re: VST Request - Crest Factor Decreaser

mannyaudio85 wrote:So, creating a filter that manipulates the audio, in whatever way it needs to, to lower the crest factor to a value closer to 0 while not modifying the RMS, is an impossible task?


The only frequency in this world that can have a crest factor of 0 is 0Hz aka DC. A crest factor close the 0 means your signal has very little dynamics, even the worst mastered albums have a DR of 5-6, so your aim is to make a bad mix or maybe a distortion/fsu plug?

Just to reiterate: Crest = Peak - RMS;

Phase rotators, as used in radio for vocals as JCJR pointed out, only works because the glottal pulses of the human voice is asymmetrical to begin with, think of it as a pulse wave with 20% duty cycle, any symmetrical waveform with have little or no effect or even the opposite effect(increased crest).

As an increased dynamic example, take any mastered song(a whole song), put it in your DAW and put a phase rotator on it, a mastered song will obviously be slightly less than 0dBFS, now process it with a phase rotator, you'll see(with an accurate meter) that some signals will be greater than 0dBFS, aka clipping your converters.

On a side note about phase rotators used in radio, they are used because they had no choice -> it was a compromise decision, AM/FM transmission needs a high RMS level to work, it's a low fidelity technology, any $20 CD player will have better quality than a AM/FM radio broadcast.

Another thing about phase rotators, they also smear transients(make them mushy), a single one won't do much but add a couple hundred in series and you will get laser zap type sounds, this arrangement is exploited on some spring-reverb emulations.

A very cool plugin that doesn't do what you want(it increases phase correlation aka Peaks/DR), but works with phases non the less is this:

https://www.soundradix.com/products/pi/

If you want to change the levels of individual instruments after they have been mixed, Melodyne might work for you, but it still won't exactly do what you want, in arithmetic terms, you want: 1 + 1 = 1.

http://www.celemony.com/en/start

and P.S.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=194452
mannyaudio85
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10 posts since 19 Jan, 2017

Postby mannyaudio85; Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:28 am Re: VST Request - Crest Factor Decreaser

By your responses and others, I know I am not properly explaining what I am wanting, and this is my fault. So please allow me to explain one last time with a much better example.

Here we have a basic, 1 minute drum loop, normalized to 0dbfs (0.00 ceiling):

http://www94.zippyshare.com/v/ssafZxEF/file.html

This loop has a DR19 and -20.02 RMS.

In this sample, I first generated a 1 second, 60 hz sine wave; normalized it to -10db below full scale:

http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/rVE8lqQi/file.html

This gives a readout of DR17 with an RMS of -19.37 when the entire track is normalized to 0dbfs (again, the 60hz tone remains -10 below full scale).

In this final example, I went back to the 60hz tone, normalized it to 0dbfs (full scale), and then mixed it into the the original drum loop at the same position. I then normalized the entire track to 0dfbs:

http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/c452JfHQ/file.html

This new file has a reading of DR10 and an RMS of -15.80.

What I want, in the simplest terms, is a VST plugin that will produce (http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/c452JfHQ/file.html) when it is given (http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/rVE8lqQi/file.html). I want this effect to be for all sounds 100hz and below. Nothing above 100hz should be modified, changed, altered, etc. in any way.

Does this make more sense guys? Clearly, I got completely confused and began delving into the different types of waveforms for low frequencies far beyond my realm of understand and ended up over-complicating everything.

Can someone make a plugin that will accomplish this task?
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
1026 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:39 am Re: VST Request - Crest Factor Decreaser

mannyaudio85 wrote:
What I want, in the simplest terms, is a VST plugin that will produce (http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/c452JfHQ/file.html) when it is given (http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/rVE8lqQi/file.html). I want this effect to be for all sounds 100hz and below. Nothing above 100hz should be modified, changed, altered, etc. in any way.

Can someone make a plugin that will accomplish this task?


Melodyne
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Vospi
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201 posts since 31 May, 2011

Postby Vospi; Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:23 am Re: VST Request - Crest Factor Decreaser

You're clearly not reading our answers or not understanding them fully, while writing that you're "well aware of it". I gave you an answer to that question yesterday - if you want to bump a certain part of frequency spectrum (dynamically speaking), well, multiband limiters are around for at least 10 years. Isolate your band and limit it. This will do exactly what you ask. And it won't sound good. A dynamic EQ will do, too.

You have some fantasized understanding of how sound is constructed (like "all bass is essentially sinewaves") and you're trying to base some conclusions on that, they just don't work, so I'm asking to describe a perceived goal. How the result sounds. It's something you should work on - formulating your wish and not ignoring numerous times I've answered your questions, like they weren't posed at all.
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Lorenz @ XARC Mastering
KVRist
 
111 posts since 19 May, 2003, from Germany

Postby Lorenz @ XARC Mastering; Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:48 am Re: VST Request - Crest Factor Decreaser

I can second Vospi on what has been said, it is just very simple: what you are looking for is impossible to achieve, it´s against physics / natural laws. I´ve "been there" (where you are) in my very early days as a mastering engineer too, back when "serious" digital started to appear in the early 90´s. Fell in love with any "new digital approach" ever since and am always at the cutting edge when it comes to using it for mastering work, but what you are asking for is simply not possible - OK, it is (as already been said): limit your peaks, but without gain compensating / normalizing afterward. But seriously, not everything below 100Hz consists of sine-waves, see, take a second harmonic of the 30Hz waveform that unfolds to 60Hz, voila, not just sine-waves there anymore. Of course, though, everything can be de-synthesized to single sine-waves, really everything (also has already been said), but that will not help you with your situation and your goal, which is to increase perceived dynamic range.

That being said, what you are looking for is a dynamic expander / transient designer that you can apply to the complete track. THAT will do the trick without mixing in 60Hz sine-waves :-) MTransient by Melda comes to mind: https://www.meldaproduction.com/MTransient In general, this guy has the most advanced digital plug-ins out there, IF you can dig the 90´s UI, you´ll find that you are in wonderland sound-wise. Also checkout this one, it might be helpful for aligning your bass area: https://www.meldaproduction.com/MFreeformPhase (actually a free one too). You can mangle the phase per frequency (freely drawable) from -360° to +360°, maybe that can achieve something you need too.

Good luck :-)
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